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Kids swelter as they are forced to wear jumpers at school
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| Satin Bailey feels the heat in her uniform |
PARENTS are putting the
heat on a Hampshire school
to drop its compulsory uniform
rule as the county continued
to sizzle in heatwave
temperatures.
One mum yesterday described the
policy as "child torture" on a day when
the Met Office said the south had
reached a sweltering 22C (72F).
Pupils at Hounsdown School, Totton,
must individually seek and be granted
permission to remove their jumpers in
class regardless of soaring temperatures.
Anyone who takes off their
jumper without teacher's consent is
given detention.
Concerns have been raised that shy
youngsters are suffering in silence
A mum, whose identity the Daily
Echo has agreed to withhold, was horrified
when her 11-year-old came home
feeling unwell.
She said: "The school is violating the
human rights of their children by getting
them to wear jumpers in this heat.
It's just insane. They are left to boil
alive while the teachers arrive in their
summer blouses. These are really thick
jumpers and my daughter arrived
home red-faced with her
hair sticking to her."
The rule is set to be tested
further today and tomorrow
when temperatures are forecast
to reach a high of 24C
(75F) before falling to 19C
(66F) on Thursday and 17C
(63F) on Friday.
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Past pupils recalled that
the rule has been in place for
more than a decade.
One former pupil called for
common sense to prevail. He said: "The
school is very militant with this rule. I
remember having to put my hand up
and ask permission - sometimes I was
refused. There were other pupils too
intimidated to ask."
The issue has divided parents with
some maintaining that the jumpers
look smart and professional
while others have
called for the rule to be
reviewed. Head teacher
Di Nightingale defended
the rule as a normal part
of school uniform.
She said: "If a pupil
wishes to remove their
jumper, all they have to
do is ask a member of
staff and permission is
normally granted. Certainly in the current
hot weather a large number of
pupils have done just that."
8:22am Tuesday 13th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Kirsty, West End, Soton on 8:43am Tue 13 May 08
I remember when I was at Wildern it was exactly the same, we had to ask to take our jumpers off when we were in class and when we were outside we weren't allowed to take our jumpers off at all unless it was a "jumpers off" day - [bold]pathetic[/bold] or what!
I remember when I was at Wildern it was exactly the same, we had to ask to take our jumpers off when we were in class and when we were outside we weren't allowed to take our jumpers off at all unless it was a "jumpers off" day -
pathetic or what!
Posted by: Mrs. T, hedge end on 8:44am Tue 13 May 08
Let the headteacher and teachers wear these uniforms and see how they like it. Shouldn't schools be concentrating on teaching pupils rather than being obsessed with enforcing military rules?[quote]quote[/quote]
Let the headteacher and teachers wear these uniforms and see how they like it. Shouldn't schools be concentrating on teaching pupils rather than being obsessed with enforcing military rules?
quote
Posted by: Parent of Wildern Pupil, 056-868 on 8:59am Tue 13 May 08
I agree with the above comments my son came home from Wildern red faced and overheated as he could take off his jumper. His biggest grip was that the teachers wore their summer clothes why can they not allow the children to remove their jumpers. Some teachers allow it in the class byt not outside unless it is a jumpers of day. it is not hygenic or healthy to allow children to sweat without replaceing the fluid lost. NO WATER BOTTLES how dumb is that?
I agree with the above comments my son came home from Wildern red faced and overheated as he could take off his jumper. His biggest grip was that the teachers wore their summer clothes why can they not allow the children to remove their jumpers. Some teachers allow it in the class byt not outside unless it is a jumpers of day. it is not hygenic or healthy to allow children to sweat without replaceing the fluid lost. NO WATER BOTTLES how dumb is that?
Posted by: Miss M, Totton on 9:03am Tue 13 May 08
[italic]This is an outrage!!!! I am a school nurse and have had pupils come to me just wearing their shirts and they are far to hot... Get the jumpers off those kids for god sake!!!! Rules are there to be broken....[/italic]
This is an outrage!!!! I am a school nurse and have had pupils come to me just wearing their shirts and they are far to hot... Get the jumpers off those kids for god sake!!!! Rules are there to be broken.... Posted by: Sue, Southampton on 9:10am Tue 13 May 08
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.
Posted by: pug, Bash Street on 9:14am Tue 13 May 08
Less of the whining about 'human rights' please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not like they're being waterboarded by sadists.
Less of the whining about 'human rights' please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not like they're being waterboarded by sadists.
Posted by: paul b on 9:20am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Sue[/bold] wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.[/quote] The flaw with this argument is the contempt created by stupid rules.
Most people can see that a rule like this is more than a bit pointless and will just want to ignore it. By doing this they lose respect for the idea of rules as a whole.
In the powers that be used logic and common sense when making rules, the world would be a better place by far.
Sue wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.
The flaw with this argument is the contempt created by stupid rules.
Most people can see that a rule like this is more than a bit pointless and will just want to ignore it. By doing this they lose respect for the idea of rules as a whole.
In the powers that be used logic and common sense when making rules, the world would be a better place by far.
Posted by: Jeanne, Southampton on 9:27am Tue 13 May 08
I don't know what the rule is at Bitterne Park School, but I would like to see the children being made to wear waterproofs and/or warm clothing during the wet and rainy winter. I see the children going to school in the morning, both boys and girls dressed in trousers and shirts - not even a jumper in the depths of winter!
I don't know what the rule is at Bitterne Park School, but I would like to see the children being made to wear waterproofs and/or warm clothing during the wet and rainy winter. I see the children going to school in the morning, both boys and girls dressed in trousers and shirts - not even a jumper in the depths of winter!
Posted by: John, Lyndhurst on 9:29am Tue 13 May 08
This is not a question about obeying school "rules". It is about whether the school and it's teaching staff have any consideration whatsoever about the comfort and well being of their pupils. Making a child to sweat in the heat and feel uncomfortable has a sadistic nature to it. There has been no mention of what happens when the children take breaks outside, or travel between classrooms. I am reliably informed that at Hounsdown School the pupils are forced to wear their jumpers at all times, unless they have been given permission to take them off in the classroom. Perhaps those who think this sort of treatment is acceptable would try sitting outside in the sun today for an hour, while wearing a thick woollen jumper. And regarding all the rubbish about today's youth needing to have respect for rules, how can anyone have respect for stupid rules that achieve nothing except distress and discomfort? I am in my 60's and think the children at Hounsdown deserve more consideration from their teachers and "betters".
This is not a question about obeying school "rules". It is about whether the school and it's teaching staff have any consideration whatsoever about the comfort and well being of their pupils. Making a child to sweat in the heat and feel uncomfortable has a sadistic nature to it. There has been no mention of what happens when the children take breaks outside, or travel between classrooms. I am reliably informed that at Hounsdown School the pupils are forced to wear their jumpers at all times, unless they have been given permission to take them off in the classroom. Perhaps those who think this sort of treatment is acceptable would try sitting outside in the sun today for an hour, while wearing a thick woollen jumper. And regarding all the rubbish about today's youth needing to have respect for rules, how can anyone have respect for stupid rules that achieve nothing except distress and discomfort? I am in my 60's and think the children at Hounsdown deserve more consideration from their teachers and "betters".
Posted by: George on 9:32am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Sue[/bold] wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys
rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not
riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail
to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a
purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student
asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social
skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication
between student and adults. University students have no idea how to
communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all
laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in
upholding laws either.[/quote] So you unquestioningly obey all rules at all times, regardless of how utterly pointless or counter-productive they are, without even thinking of challenging them? This is why we've got a country full of people who are unable to think for themselves. Friggin' robots
Sue wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys
rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not
riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail
to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a
purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student
asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social
skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication
between student and adults. University students have no idea how to
communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all
laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in
upholding laws either.
So you unquestioningly obey all rules at all times, regardless of how utterly pointless or counter-productive they are, without even thinking of challenging them? This is why we've got a country full of people who are unable to think for themselves. Friggin' robots
Posted by: Steve, Southampton on 9:42am Tue 13 May 08
I'm sure that if every student took off the jumpers/sweaters off during the day, the whole school will be in detention ... the school would find that some what fustrated and more then likly not bother holding them back, teachers would have to go home to pick up their kids or dental/doctors appointment, meaning the school will be under staffed ... so simple answer is get all the kids not to wear a jump in protest and see what the school will say/do about that... end of the dday this is human life, these kids could end up in A+E with some sort of heat health problem, then what would the school do or feel???
I'm sure that if every student took off the jumpers/sweaters off during the day, the whole school will be in detention ... the school would find that some what fustrated and more then likly not bother holding them back, teachers would have to go home to pick up their kids or dental/doctors appointment, meaning the school will be under staffed ... so simple answer is get all the kids not to wear a jump in protest and see what the school will say/do about that... end of the dday this is human life, these kids could end up in A+E with some sort of heat health problem, then what would the school do or feel???
Posted by: Kirsty, West End, Soton on 9:57am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Sue[/bold] wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.[/quote] Sue you are ridiculous, manners are saying please and thank you, and holding the door open for people. I remember when I was at school and as a quiet pupil, did not like having to put my hand up in front of the whole class, especially having to interrupt the whole class just to take my jumper off. I can imagine you're probably too old to even remember school and how scary it was!
[bold]Also, taking your jumper has nothing to do with the LAW.[/bold]
Sue wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.
Sue you are ridiculous, manners are saying please and thank you, and holding the door open for people. I remember when I was at school and as a quiet pupil, did not like having to put my hand up in front of the whole class, especially having to interrupt the whole class just to take my jumper off. I can imagine you're probably too old to even remember school and how scary it was!
Also, taking your jumper has nothing to do with the LAW. Posted by: Denzil, Chilworth on 9:59am Tue 13 May 08
These children need to grow some balls. I would just take it off regardless.
These children need to grow some balls. I would just take it off regardless.
Posted by: Suzi, New Forest on 10:06am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]pug[/bold] wrote:
Less of the whining about 'human rights' please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not like they're being waterboarded by sadists.[/quote] No it's torture by those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot
pug wrote:
Less of the whining about 'human rights' please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not like they're being waterboarded by sadists.
No it's torture by those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot
Posted by: Suzanne, Lyndhurst on 10:10am Tue 13 May 08
I spoke to the assistant head teacher yesterday about this problem and additionally they are expected to wear their jumpers at break times, lunchtimes, between classes and to and fro from school. I took my daughter to school yesterday and saw teachers wondering in with no jumpers just shirts and thin blouses at that. I think they should be made to conform to the same rules and see how long it takes for the union to step in!!
I spoke to the assistant head teacher yesterday about this problem and additionally they are expected to wear their jumpers at break times, lunchtimes, between classes and to and fro from school. I took my daughter to school yesterday and saw teachers wondering in with no jumpers just shirts and thin blouses at that. I think they should be made to conform to the same rules and see how long it takes for the union to step in!!
Posted by: Ted, Southampton on 10:30am Tue 13 May 08
I'm all for looking smart and presenting a good image but there needs to be a common sense approach to this. Let the kids take the jumper off if they feel too hot, simple as that. If you want them to look smart wonce the jumper is off make them wear ties again.
Also, permission is normally granted when asked, what if the teacher refuses? What happens then, especially after the kids has fainted? Are they in a position to sue the teacher on health and safety grounds? I see Hounsdown heading for the courts....
I'm all for looking smart and presenting a good image but there needs to be a common sense approach to this. Let the kids take the jumper off if they feel too hot, simple as that. If you want them to look smart wonce the jumper is off make them wear ties again.
Also, permission is normally granted when asked, what if the teacher refuses? What happens then, especially after the kids has fainted? Are they in a position to sue the teacher on health and safety grounds? I see Hounsdown heading for the courts....
Posted by: Ex Student, from the 1980's!! on 10:55am Tue 13 May 08
I was there when Peter Kay was head. It was a very disciplined school and was well respected. Mr Kay knew everyone's name and how they were doing at school. There were not the current restrictions about dress code although we were expected to look smart at all times. With the present headmistress many of the student barely knows who she is as she is surrounded by various PA's and unpteen deputies.
Perhaps it's not the children of today that need discipline but rather the teachers of today who need educating!
I was there when Peter Kay was head. It was a very disciplined school and was well respected. Mr Kay knew everyone's name and how they were doing at school. There were not the current restrictions about dress code although we were expected to look smart at all times. With the present headmistress many of the student barely knows who she is as she is surrounded by various PA's and unpteen deputies.
Perhaps it's not the children of today that need discipline but rather the teachers of today who need educating!
Posted by: George on 10:56am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Suzi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]pug[/bold] wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights'
please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not
like they're being waterboarded by sadists.[/quote] No it's torture by
those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you
wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot[/quote] Torture? Human rights? Grow up, Suzi, for goodness sake. This is hardly torture. You might want to talk to some [bold]actual[/bold] torture victims about what they think of being made to wear a wooly jumper on a hot day, and how it compares to having their fingernails ripped out with pliers, or electrical charges being applied to their wet skin. Torture does not mean "any slightly unpleasant act that someone wishes did not happen". Look it up. As for human rights, try getting Amnesty International involved if you like, love, but I think they've got bigger fish to fry
Pug is quite right, this is so far removed from "torture" and "human rights" it's unbelievable.
Suzi wrote:
pug wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights'
please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not
like they're being waterboarded by sadists.
No it's torture by
those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you
wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot
Torture? Human rights? Grow up, Suzi, for goodness sake. This is hardly torture. You might want to talk to some
actual torture victims about what they think of being made to wear a wooly jumper on a hot day, and how it compares to having their fingernails ripped out with pliers, or electrical charges being applied to their wet skin. Torture does not mean "any slightly unpleasant act that someone wishes did not happen". Look it up. As for human rights, try getting Amnesty International involved if you like, love, but I think they've got bigger fish to fry
Pug is quite right, this is so far removed from "torture" and "human rights" it's unbelievable.
Posted by: SUE, ELING TOTTON on 10:58am Tue 13 May 08
MY DAUGHTER GOES TO HOUNSDOWN,
SHE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT
THAT ON FRIDAY THE SCHOOL TURN OF THE DRINKING WATER TAPS AS
THE PUPILS WERE SPLASHING THERE FACES WITH WATER BECAUSE OF
THE HOT WEATHER AND THEY WERE TOLD THAT IF THEY DID THIS AGAIN THE TAPS WOULD BE TURN OFF FOR GOOD.
IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE PUPILS NOT HAVING THE SCHOOL NAME ON THERE SHIRTS, THEN HAVE A POLO SHIRT WITH THE SCHOOL NAME ON IT IN THE SUMMER, I AM NOT HAPPY THAT MY CHILD IS MADE TO WEAR HER JUMPER IN THIS WEATHER WHEN THE TEACHER ARE ALL WEARING THERE SUMMER CLOTHES.
MY DAUGHTER GOES TO HOUNSDOWN,
SHE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT
THAT ON FRIDAY THE SCHOOL TURN OF THE DRINKING WATER TAPS AS
THE PUPILS WERE SPLASHING THERE FACES WITH WATER BECAUSE OF
THE HOT WEATHER AND THEY WERE TOLD THAT IF THEY DID THIS AGAIN THE TAPS WOULD BE TURN OFF FOR GOOD.
IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE PUPILS NOT HAVING THE SCHOOL NAME ON THERE SHIRTS, THEN HAVE A POLO SHIRT WITH THE SCHOOL NAME ON IT IN THE SUMMER, I AM NOT HAPPY THAT MY CHILD IS MADE TO WEAR HER JUMPER IN THIS WEATHER WHEN THE TEACHER ARE ALL WEARING THERE SUMMER CLOTHES.
Posted by: Suzi, On george's doorstep with a jumper! on 11:09am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]George[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Suzi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]pug[/bold] wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights'
please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not
like they're being waterboarded by sadists.[/quote] No it's torture by
those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you
wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot[/quote] Torture? Human rights? Grow up, Suzi, for goodness sake. This is hardly torture. You might want to talk to some [bold]actual[/bold] torture victims about what they think of being made to wear a wooly jumper on a hot day, and how it compares to having their fingernails ripped out with pliers, or electrical charges being applied to their wet skin. Torture does not mean "any slightly unpleasant act that someone wishes did not happen". Look it up. As for human rights, try getting Amnesty International involved if you like, love, but I think they've got bigger fish to fry
Pug is quite right, this is so far removed from "torture" and "human rights" it's unbelievable. [/quote] George why be so stupid! You look it up, love! So what is the dripping of a tap, that isn't physical pain.
George wrote:
Suzi wrote:
pug wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights'
please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not
like they're being waterboarded by sadists.
No it's torture by
those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you
wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot
Torture? Human rights? Grow up, Suzi, for goodness sake. This is hardly torture. You might want to talk to some actual torture victims about what they think of being made to wear a wooly jumper on a hot day, and how it compares to having their fingernails ripped out with pliers, or electrical charges being applied to their wet skin. Torture does not mean "any slightly unpleasant act that someone wishes did not happen". Look it up. As for human rights, try getting Amnesty International involved if you like, love, but I think they've got bigger fish to fry
Pug is quite right, this is so far removed from "torture" and "human rights" it's unbelievable.
George why be so stupid! You look it up, love! So what is the dripping of a tap, that isn't physical pain.
Posted by: bunny, hamble on 11:14am Tue 13 May 08
its the same at hamble shirts tie and blazer if your lucky they let you unbutton top button,but been told teachers are in polo shirts?
its the same at hamble shirts tie and blazer if your lucky they let you unbutton top button,but been told teachers are in polo shirts?
Posted by: Lucy, Hounsdown area on 11:16am Tue 13 May 08
George, I think you're going a bit overboard ! But I agree with Suzi, if I had to sit with sweatshirt on all day or especially outside it would play on my mind to the extreme. I wish I could watch you sit outside in a jumper for just half and hour and see how you feel and then go into a class and be expected to concentrate.
George, I think you're going a bit overboard ! But I agree with Suzi, if I had to sit with sweatshirt on all day or especially outside it would play on my mind to the extreme. I wish I could watch you sit outside in a jumper for just half and hour and see how you feel and then go into a class and be expected to concentrate.
Posted by: bunny, hamble on 11:28am Tue 13 May 08
if theres any teachers out there from hamble would like to no please
if theres any teachers out there from hamble would like to no please
Posted by: shaz on 11:28am Tue 13 May 08
all they have to do is ask the teacher if they can take it off!!! if the teacher says no, then they should just take it off regardless, at least they followed rules and asked first!
all they have to do is ask the teacher if they can take it off!!! if the teacher says no, then they should just take it off regardless, at least they followed rules and asked first!
Posted by: Grandmother of student, New Forest on 11:31am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]SUE[/bold] wrote:
MY DAUGHTER GOES TO HOUNSDOWN, SHE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT THAT ON FRIDAY THE SCHOOL TURN OF THE DRINKING WATER TAPS AS THE PUPILS WERE SPLASHING THERE FACES WITH WATER BECAUSE OF THE HOT WEATHER AND THEY WERE TOLD THAT IF THEY DID THIS AGAIN THE TAPS WOULD BE TURN OFF FOR GOOD. IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE PUPILS NOT HAVING THE SCHOOL NAME ON THERE SHIRTS, THEN HAVE A POLO SHIRT WITH THE SCHOOL NAME ON IT IN THE SUMMER, I AM NOT HAPPY THAT MY CHILD IS MADE TO WEAR HER JUMPER IN THIS WEATHER WHEN THE TEACHER ARE ALL WEARING THERE SUMMER CLOTHES.[/quote] This just shows what sort of teachers we're dealing with. This should go further and all school children should be able to take off their jumper at anytime of year if they are too hot. What sort of person makes up rules like this - it's just unbelievable.
SUE wrote:
MY DAUGHTER GOES TO HOUNSDOWN, SHE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT THAT ON FRIDAY THE SCHOOL TURN OF THE DRINKING WATER TAPS AS THE PUPILS WERE SPLASHING THERE FACES WITH WATER BECAUSE OF THE HOT WEATHER AND THEY WERE TOLD THAT IF THEY DID THIS AGAIN THE TAPS WOULD BE TURN OFF FOR GOOD. IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE PUPILS NOT HAVING THE SCHOOL NAME ON THERE SHIRTS, THEN HAVE A POLO SHIRT WITH THE SCHOOL NAME ON IT IN THE SUMMER, I AM NOT HAPPY THAT MY CHILD IS MADE TO WEAR HER JUMPER IN THIS WEATHER WHEN THE TEACHER ARE ALL WEARING THERE SUMMER CLOTHES.
This just shows what sort of teachers we're dealing with. This should go further and all school children should be able to take off their jumper at anytime of year if they are too hot. What sort of person makes up rules like this - it's just unbelievable.
Posted by: shaz on 11:31am Tue 13 May 08
or maybe the teacher could ask at the start of the lesson if anyone wants to take their jumper off, do it then. that way everyone's happy.
or maybe the teacher could ask at the start of the lesson if anyone wants to take their jumper off, do it then. that way everyone's happy.
Posted by: George on 11:34am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Lucy[/bold] wrote:
George, I think you're going a bit overboard ! But I agree with Suzi,
if I had to sit with sweatshirt on all day or especially outside it
would play on my mind to the extreme. I wish I could watch you sit
outside in a jumper for just half and hour and see how you feel and
then go into a class and be expected to concentrate.[/quote] It would be unpleasant, yes. But that does not constitute torture
Lucy wrote:
George, I think you're going a bit overboard ! But I agree with Suzi,
if I had to sit with sweatshirt on all day or especially outside it
would play on my mind to the extreme. I wish I could watch you sit
outside in a jumper for just half and hour and see how you feel and
then go into a class and be expected to concentrate.
It would be unpleasant, yes. But that does not constitute torture
Posted by: Osama Bin Laden, A Cave far far away on 11:34am Tue 13 May 08
Some of them are so fat losing a few extra pounds wont hurt
Some of them are so fat losing a few extra pounds wont hurt
Posted by: Lucy on 11:35am Tue 13 May 08
Bunny - Hamble
Please I hope you are doing something about this and are not just silent. Write to the school and the governors. But best ring the Daily Echo this way all the parents will realise what's going on in their childs school.
Bunny - Hamble
Please I hope you are doing something about this and are not just silent. Write to the school and the governors. But best ring the Daily Echo this way all the parents will realise what's going on in their childs school.
Posted by: John, Lyndhurst on 11:59am Tue 13 May 08
Both my children went to Hounsdown some 20 years ago and now my gand-daughter goes there. I am amazed that so called progress has resulted in Dickensian practices, where children are forced to be uncomfortable in extreme heat and denied water. What sort of people now run this school? Why are the parents and Board of Governors allowing such abuse of their children. It is about time this school was inspected. What other things are going on? There are various forms of torture and although we are not talking about "fingernail extraction or electrical charges" I would not expect to see my children or grandchildren having to put up with these stupid rules and unpleasant treatment in these "enlightened" times. I would not put up with it myself - sadly the children are not able to tell the teachers to "get lost!"
Both my children went to Hounsdown some 20 years ago and now my gand-daughter goes there. I am amazed that so called progress has resulted in Dickensian practices, where children are forced to be uncomfortable in extreme heat and denied water. What sort of people now run this school? Why are the parents and Board of Governors allowing such abuse of their children. It is about time this school was inspected. What other things are going on? There are various forms of torture and although we are not talking about "fingernail extraction or electrical charges" I would not expect to see my children or grandchildren having to put up with these stupid rules and unpleasant treatment in these "enlightened" times. I would not put up with it myself - sadly the children are not able to tell the teachers to "get lost!"
Posted by: Sally, Locks Heath on 12:10pm Tue 13 May 08
They also have this rule at Brookfield Community School in Locks Heath. The silly thing is, you're allowed to where one of their own logo polo shirts without a jumper, but if you where a blouse and tie you must always where a jumper. Wheres the sense in that!!!!!! How they expect the kids to concentrate I really don't know. I think these schools should be named and shamed into using common sense. Lets put the teachers in dentention with sweatshirts on and no windows open. What do you reckon?
They also have this rule at Brookfield Community School in Locks Heath. The silly thing is, you're allowed to where one of their own logo polo shirts without a jumper, but if you where a blouse and tie you must always where a jumper. Wheres the sense in that!!!!!! How they expect the kids to concentrate I really don't know. I think these schools should be named and shamed into using common sense. Lets put the teachers in dentention with sweatshirts on and no windows open. What do you reckon?
Posted by: fred, bristol on 12:12pm Tue 13 May 08
Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper?
This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem?
The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.
Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper?
This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem?
The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.
Posted by: grumpy old man, 277-129 on 12:18pm Tue 13 May 08
these kids don't know they are born. when i were there age i was down t'mine by day and up t'chimney by night. did you here me complain? ya heard nowt cos i wudda got clip round ear and not been allowed me dripping ration for rest of month
these kids don't know they are born. when i were there age i was down t'mine by day and up t'chimney by night. did you here me complain? ya heard nowt cos i wudda got clip round ear and not been allowed me dripping ration for rest of month
Posted by: Condor Man, Southampton on 12:38pm Tue 13 May 08
Comfort? blimey, we've been living in Blair/Brown world for 11 years too long. Surely the most important issue is whether kids are educated. Rules are there to instill values. Look at the employment rates of young working class kids- it's risable. Those wearing blazers do much better because they are toughened up and can take on challenges in later life. This bunch of weeds and their no marks parents are only fit for the benefits queue.
Comfort? blimey, we've been living in Blair/Brown world for 11 years too long. Surely the most important issue is whether kids are educated. Rules are there to instill values. Look at the employment rates of young working class kids- it's risable. Those wearing blazers do much better because they are toughened up and can take on challenges in later life. This bunch of weeds and their no marks parents are only fit for the benefits queue.
Posted by: Ex-Pupil, Totton on 1:27pm Tue 13 May 08
Considering the present head, Ms Nightingale, is obsessed with achieving high GCSE grade passes for all her students, she doesn't seem to realise that making young people swelter in excessively hot temperatures is detrimental to both their health AND education!
As an ex-pupil of Hounsdown, this school has always had a militant approach to uniform (yes, even in the days of Mr Kay) with no respect for external influences such as hot and cold weather. By all accounts, and I know several people who have children at Hounsdown, the current head is even more unreasonable over uniform requirements than her predecessors ever where.
But the hypocrisy of this matter is clearly present among the staff, particularly female staff, who wear their summer clothing which is often skimpy and inappropriate for teaching teenagers.
Although I wish no harm to any of the young people, heat stroke can be a serious medical condition and, if anyone does develop this illness because of Ms Nightingale's arrogance and sheet stupity, I hope the school is sued for damages - especially as any detrimental affect on GCSE's will not just damage the schools league table position but potentially the future career and life of the young person concerned.
Considering the present head, Ms Nightingale, is obsessed with achieving high GCSE grade passes for all her students, she doesn't seem to realise that making young people swelter in excessively hot temperatures is detrimental to both their health AND education!
As an ex-pupil of Hounsdown, this school has always had a militant approach to uniform (yes, even in the days of Mr Kay) with no respect for external influences such as hot and cold weather. By all accounts, and I know several people who have children at Hounsdown, the current head is even more unreasonable over uniform requirements than her predecessors ever where.
But the hypocrisy of this matter is clearly present among the staff, particularly female staff, who wear their summer clothing which is often skimpy and inappropriate for teaching teenagers.
Although I wish no harm to any of the young people, heat stroke can be a serious medical condition and, if anyone does develop this illness because of Ms Nightingale's arrogance and sheet stupity, I hope the school is sued for damages - especially as any detrimental affect on GCSE's will not just damage the schools league table position but potentially the future career and life of the young person concerned.
Posted by: bunny, hamble on 1:42pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]fred[/bold] wrote:
Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.[/quote] its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens!
fred wrote:
Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.
its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens!
Posted by: Brian, Soton on 1:42pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Grandmother of student[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]SUE[/bold] wrote: MY DAUGHTER GOES TO HOUNSDOWN, SHE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT THAT ON FRIDAY THE SCHOOL TURN OF THE DRINKING WATER TAPS AS THE PUPILS WERE SPLASHING THERE FACES WITH WATER BECAUSE OF THE HOT WEATHER AND THEY WERE TOLD THAT IF THEY DID THIS AGAIN THE TAPS WOULD BE TURN OFF FOR GOOD. IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE PUPILS NOT HAVING THE SCHOOL NAME ON THERE SHIRTS, THEN HAVE A POLO SHIRT WITH THE SCHOOL NAME ON IT IN THE SUMMER, I AM NOT HAPPY THAT MY CHILD IS MADE TO WEAR HER JUMPER IN THIS WEATHER WHEN THE TEACHER ARE ALL WEARING THERE SUMMER CLOTHES.[/quote] This just shows what sort of teachers we're dealing with. This should go further and all school children should be able to take off their jumper at anytime of year if they are too hot. What sort of person makes up rules like this - it's just unbelievable.[/quote] My Son attends Bitterne Park school, and only wears a polo shirt, and this is what the school reccomends, Just shows that one school has it right. As far as the water fountains are concerned I wouldnt mind betting they are worried about slip hazzards, are they all going MAD.
Grandmother of student wrote:
SUE wrote: MY DAUGHTER GOES TO HOUNSDOWN, SHE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT THAT ON FRIDAY THE SCHOOL TURN OF THE DRINKING WATER TAPS AS THE PUPILS WERE SPLASHING THERE FACES WITH WATER BECAUSE OF THE HOT WEATHER AND THEY WERE TOLD THAT IF THEY DID THIS AGAIN THE TAPS WOULD BE TURN OFF FOR GOOD. IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE PUPILS NOT HAVING THE SCHOOL NAME ON THERE SHIRTS, THEN HAVE A POLO SHIRT WITH THE SCHOOL NAME ON IT IN THE SUMMER, I AM NOT HAPPY THAT MY CHILD IS MADE TO WEAR HER JUMPER IN THIS WEATHER WHEN THE TEACHER ARE ALL WEARING THERE SUMMER CLOTHES.
This just shows what sort of teachers we're dealing with. This should go further and all school children should be able to take off their jumper at anytime of year if they are too hot. What sort of person makes up rules like this - it's just unbelievable.
My Son attends Bitterne Park school, and only wears a polo shirt, and this is what the school reccomends, Just shows that one school has it right. As far as the water fountains are concerned I wouldnt mind betting they are worried about slip hazzards, are they all going MAD.
Posted by: IAN, aldermoor on 2:10pm Tue 13 May 08
I t could be worse, your child could go to Regents park.Knowing that school the kids probabably have to wear coats as well.
I t could be worse, your child could go to Regents park.Knowing that school the kids probabably have to wear coats as well.
Posted by: Grandmother on 2:10pm Tue 13 May 08
To Fred
You don't seem to have grasped the facts. Yes if they put their hands up and ask, they are allowed to take sweatshirts off but only for that lesson. While walking around between lessons and at all breaks sweatshirts have to be on. So if you hadn't agree when the child started at the school, where do you send the child then? Twenty miles away and how do you get the child there? Hounsdown school isn't in a large city.
To Fred
You don't seem to have grasped the facts. Yes if they put their hands up and ask, they are allowed to take sweatshirts off but only for that lesson. While walking around between lessons and at all breaks sweatshirts have to be on. So if you hadn't agree when the child started at the school, where do you send the child then? Twenty miles away and how do you get the child there? Hounsdown school isn't in a large city.
Posted by: ann m. taylor, vancouver on 2:13pm Tue 13 May 08
Very sad to see that teachers have joined the growing number of self rightous groups on their little power trips, what ever happened to common sense and logic ?
Very sad to see that teachers have joined the growing number of self rightous groups on their little power trips, what ever happened to common sense and logic ?
Posted by: Carole, Bitterne Park on 2:16pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Jeanne[/bold] wrote:
I don't know what the rule is at Bitterne Park School, but I would like to see the children being made to wear waterproofs and/or warm clothing during the wet and rainy winter. I see the children going to school in the morning, both boys and girls dressed in trousers and shirts - not even a jumper in the depths of winter![/quote] In regards to Jeanne's comment, I don't think this is down the school but the individual child's choice not to wear a coat. I know some children refuse to wear a coat, I really have to try hard to get my daughter to wear one. My daughter is due to start Bitterne Park School in September and I know that the school allows polo shirts to be worn in the summer term and half way into the autumn term, but these must have the school logo on. If the children do not choose to wear these polo shirts, then it has to be shirts or blouses but with the school jumper. All the schools are doing is ensuring that their pupils are easily identifiable by wearing one piece of clothing, whether it be jumper or polo shirt, that has the school logo on it; then, if that child should have an accident, cause trouble etc, etc, it would aid any 'authority' in identifying them.
Jeanne wrote:
I don't know what the rule is at Bitterne Park School, but I would like to see the children being made to wear waterproofs and/or warm clothing during the wet and rainy winter. I see the children going to school in the morning, both boys and girls dressed in trousers and shirts - not even a jumper in the depths of winter!
In regards to Jeanne's comment, I don't think this is down the school but the individual child's choice not to wear a coat. I know some children refuse to wear a coat, I really have to try hard to get my daughter to wear one. My daughter is due to start Bitterne Park School in September and I know that the school allows polo shirts to be worn in the summer term and half way into the autumn term, but these must have the school logo on. If the children do not choose to wear these polo shirts, then it has to be shirts or blouses but with the school jumper. All the schools are doing is ensuring that their pupils are easily identifiable by wearing one piece of clothing, whether it be jumper or polo shirt, that has the school logo on it; then, if that child should have an accident, cause trouble etc, etc, it would aid any 'authority' in identifying them.
Posted by: Dave, Southampton on 2:29pm Tue 13 May 08
I think this is effin ridiculous!!! What is this country coming to, honestly. When i was at [bold]Oaklands Community school[/bold] you wasnt even allowed to go to toilet. Its just plain pathetic and something needs to be done about it, if my child come home from school and told me that then i would not send them to school and just keep them off because the schools would soon change their ways. PATHETIC!!!!!!!!
I think this is effin ridiculous!!! What is this country coming to, honestly. When i was at
Oaklands Community school you wasnt even allowed to go to toilet. Its just plain pathetic and something needs to be done about it, if my child come home from school and told me that then i would not send them to school and just keep them off because the schools would soon change their ways. PATHETIC!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Theresa, Hedge End on 2:32pm Tue 13 May 08
It is not the only school with this policy. Wildern arts college also has the same policy
It is not the only school with this policy. Wildern arts college also has the same policy
Posted by: Denise, Bitterne Park on 3:16pm Tue 13 May 08
There are Health & Safety issues here - maybe the schools should take advice! Rules should be in place yes but so should common sense!
There are Health & Safety issues here - maybe the schools should take advice! Rules should be in place yes but so should common sense!
Posted by: grandma on 3:52pm Tue 13 May 08
I hope later in the day we could hear from some of the teachers and their feelings on the matter. Of course they don't have to put their real names so not risking their jobs.
( SO DID I PASS EDWARD of Southampton !!)
I hope later in the day we could hear from some of the teachers and their feelings on the matter. Of course they don't have to put their real names so not risking their jobs.
( SO DID I PASS EDWARD of Southampton !!)
Posted by: sotonian, Southampton on 4:01pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Suzi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]pug[/bold] wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights' please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not like they're being waterboarded by sadists.[/quote] No it's torture by those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot[/quote] don't the powers that be at Hounsdown realise that black absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a teachers light coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets. Its not rocket science!!
At my school the pupils don't have to wear their jumpers after easter. Progress.
Suzi wrote:
pug wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights' please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not like they're being waterboarded by sadists.
No it's torture by those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot
don't the powers that be at Hounsdown realise that black absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a teachers light coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets. Its not rocket science!!
At my school the pupils don't have to wear their jumpers after easter. Progress.
Posted by: JIM, hounsdown on 4:12pm Tue 13 May 08
in lessons they are only allowed to drink water.no juices ,bring back MR KAY
in lessons they are only allowed to drink water.no juices ,bring back MR KAY
Posted by: concerned parent, hants on 4:26pm Tue 13 May 08
make teachers where a school uniform that is most unpractical in hot weather as the only reason they want children to wear school uniform is so that they learn more and make there school have better marks may be if teachers wore a uniform they would teach better 846-826
make teachers where a school uniform that is most unpractical in hot weather as the only reason they want children to wear school uniform is so that they learn more and make there school have better marks may be if teachers wore a uniform they would teach better 846-826
Posted by: concerned, southampton on 4:29pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]IAN[/bold] wrote:
I t could be worse, your child could go to Regents park.Knowing that school the kids probabably have to wear coats as well.[/quote] I trust theat you are joking Ian.
coats arn't allowed to be worn in school
IAN wrote:
I t could be worse, your child could go to Regents park.Knowing that school the kids probabably have to wear coats as well.
I trust theat you are joking Ian.
coats arn't allowed to be worn in school
Posted by: get the facts right, TOTTON on 4:30pm Tue 13 May 08
LET GET SOME FACTS RATHER THAN GOSSIP. I work at this school and yes the kids need to ask to take their jumpers off. THATS MANNERS REMEMBER THOSE However NEVER have I heard or seen a pupil refused, noone is ever given a detention who asks to take it off FACT. The taps where turned off during lesson time (not break or lunch) because the children left them running and earlier. Some children were not just spashing their faces but sooking others people walking passed and making water bombs. FACT Torture ? Human rights ? I suggest these people look up the meaning of the word you can not compaire this to Torture, get a life its nothing of the sort. Ask true victims how they feel, it nothing like what they have suffured. -- If this is the best new the Echo can make up from hearsay I feel sorry for the readers who believe it, check your facts first its like chinese whispers ...
LET GET SOME FACTS RATHER THAN GOSSIP. I work at this school and yes the kids need to ask to take their jumpers off. THATS MANNERS REMEMBER THOSE However NEVER have I heard or seen a pupil refused, noone is ever given a detention who asks to take it off FACT. The taps where turned off during lesson time (not break or lunch) because the children left them running and earlier. Some children were not just spashing their faces but sooking others people walking passed and making water bombs. FACT Torture ? Human rights ? I suggest these people look up the meaning of the word you can not compaire this to Torture, get a life its nothing of the sort. Ask true victims how they feel, it nothing like what they have suffured. -- If this is the best new the Echo can make up from hearsay I feel sorry for the readers who believe it, check your facts first its like chinese whispers ...
Posted by: Bambi on 4:35pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]sotonian[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Suzi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]pug[/bold] wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights'
please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not
like they're being waterboarded by sadists.[/quote] No it's torture by
those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you
wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it.
Idiot[/quote] don't the powers that be at Hounsdown realise that black
absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a teachers light
coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets. Its not rocket
science!!
At my school the pupils don't have to wear their jumpers after easter.
Progress.[/quote] That "black absorbs heat therefore black clothing makes you hot" thing was debunked a while ago. All irrelevant, though, because a thick woollen jumper is gonna make you hot regardless of heat.
The real point pug was making, and Suzi et al are failing quite spectacularly to grasp, is that - whilst unpleasant - is in no way "torture"
sotonian wrote:
Suzi wrote:
pug wrote: Less of the whining about 'human rights'
please. let's keep it in context: it's a school uniform issue, it's not
like they're being waterboarded by sadists.
No it's torture by
those abusing their power and so yes it's human rights. Why don't you
wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it.
Idiot
don't the powers that be at Hounsdown realise that black
absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a teachers light
coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets. Its not rocket
science!!
At my school the pupils don't have to wear their jumpers after easter.
Progress.
That "black absorbs heat therefore black clothing makes you hot" thing was debunked a while ago. All irrelevant, though, because a thick woollen jumper is gonna make you hot regardless of heat.
The real point pug was making, and Suzi et al are failing quite spectacularly to grasp, is that - whilst unpleasant - is in no way "torture"
Posted by: Not true, totton on 4:36pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]bunny[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]fred[/bold] wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.[/quote] its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens![/quote] yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it
bunny wrote:
fred wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.
its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens!
yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it
Posted by: concerned, southampton on 4:54pm Tue 13 May 08
I feel this story has been exagerated. All schools want children to wear full school uniform at all times but through the duration of the day I cannot accept that teachers would make these children keep their jumpers on if they are hot as it would obviously effect their ability to learn as they would be uncomfortable and irriatable and secondly the school would realise they would get bad press and absolute up-roar from most of the parents governors etc. In respect of the water as it is a problem that pupils are soaking others then the school should issue letters home to all parents to make them aware that the water supply has to be turned off during the school day as there have been incidents involving pupils, but the pupils should be allowed to bring in water in sports bottles as they are accepted in a lot of schools during these hot peaks.
I feel this story has been exagerated. All schools want children to wear full school uniform at all times but through the duration of the day I cannot accept that teachers would make these children keep their jumpers on if they are hot as it would obviously effect their ability to learn as they would be uncomfortable and irriatable and secondly the school would realise they would get bad press and absolute up-roar from most of the parents governors etc. In respect of the water as it is a problem that pupils are soaking others then the school should issue letters home to all parents to make them aware that the water supply has to be turned off during the school day as there have been incidents involving pupils, but the pupils should be allowed to bring in water in sports bottles as they are accepted in a lot of schools during these hot peaks.
Posted by: paul b on 5:17pm Tue 13 May 08
I set the air con in the office and car to 22
Bloody pathetic children
I set the air con in the office and car to 22
Bloody pathetic children
Posted by: bunny, hamble on 5:21pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Not true[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bunny[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]fred[/bold] wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.[/quote] its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens![/quote] yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it[/quote] how rude!hope your not my childs teacher,and yes a phone call would be very nice thank you.well phoned the school and if a child asks then it shouldnt be a promblem.
Not true wrote:
bunny wrote: fred wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.
its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens!
yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it
how rude!hope your not my childs teacher,and yes a phone call would be very nice thank you.well phoned the school and if a child asks then it shouldnt be a promblem.
Posted by: Pupil, totton on 5:25pm Tue 13 May 08
Im a pupil at the school and to be honest you cant blame the teachers because they are just told what to do and dont make up the rules, thats the heads job. And in the summer the pupils dont ask to take there jumpers off they just do it but in the winter they have to ask and no one gets detentions for it.
Im a pupil at the school and to be honest you cant blame the teachers because they are just told what to do and dont make up the rules, thats the heads job. And in the summer the pupils dont ask to take there jumpers off they just do it but in the winter they have to ask and no one gets detentions for it.
Posted by: Chrissy May, Southampton on 5:33pm Tue 13 May 08
I was a pupil at Hounsdown and a "shy kid" but I never had a problem with the jumper rule. The teachers were fair about taking them off - many would say to us before we sat down (in my day you waited to be told to sit too) "ok jumpers of it you want." I started at Hounsdown in 91 and I think the rules help create an atmosphere where respect is expected and given. I have also worked at Kings School in Winchester where the same rule applied with Blazers and ties. The girls had to wear school uniform Box Pleat Skirts too. Does this infringe their rights? Or does it create a place where all pupils are equal and the teachers are able to be recognised as figures of authority. But both these schools have excellent results and in general excellent behaviour. I have also worked in a school where uniform is unimportant to the pupils and parents and the discipline is not as good. Sweeping statement I realise but that is how i have experienced it. I think the rules are there for reason and I hope they are still in place when my son attends secondary school.
I was a pupil at Hounsdown and a "shy kid" but I never had a problem with the jumper rule. The teachers were fair about taking them off - many would say to us before we sat down (in my day you waited to be told to sit too) "ok jumpers of it you want." I started at Hounsdown in 91 and I think the rules help create an atmosphere where respect is expected and given. I have also worked at Kings School in Winchester where the same rule applied with Blazers and ties. The girls had to wear school uniform Box Pleat Skirts too. Does this infringe their rights? Or does it create a place where all pupils are equal and the teachers are able to be recognised as figures of authority. But both these schools have excellent results and in general excellent behaviour. I have also worked in a school where uniform is unimportant to the pupils and parents and the discipline is not as good. Sweeping statement I realise but that is how i have experienced it. I think the rules are there for reason and I hope they are still in place when my son attends secondary school.
Posted by: teacher, hounsdown on 5:37pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]concerned[/bold] wrote:
I feel this story has been exagerated. All schools want children to wear full school uniform at all times but through the duration of the day I cannot accept that teachers would make these children keep their jumpers on if they are hot as it would obviously effect their ability to learn as they would be uncomfortable and irriatable and secondly the school would realise they would get bad press and absolute up-roar from most of the parents governors etc. In respect of the water as it is a problem that pupils are soaking others then the school should issue letters home to all parents to make them aware that the water supply has to be turned off during the school day as there have been incidents involving pupils, but the pupils should be allowed to bring in water in sports bottles as they are accepted in a lot of schools during these hot peaks. [/quote] the water was only during lessons so we could ensure it was not running it was on at break and lunch and YES they are encouraged and as is clearly stated just not fizzy drinks in school.... I wish the parents that are so upset would join the school association and governors to change it if they feel so strongly but they dont and noone complaining above has applied to be a parent governor need I say more[quote]quote[/quote]
concerned wrote:
I feel this story has been exagerated. All schools want children to wear full school uniform at all times but through the duration of the day I cannot accept that teachers would make these children keep their jumpers on if they are hot as it would obviously effect their ability to learn as they would be uncomfortable and irriatable and secondly the school would realise they would get bad press and absolute up-roar from most of the parents governors etc. In respect of the water as it is a problem that pupils are soaking others then the school should issue letters home to all parents to make them aware that the water supply has to be turned off during the school day as there have been incidents involving pupils, but the pupils should be allowed to bring in water in sports bottles as they are accepted in a lot of schools during these hot peaks.
the water was only during lessons so we could ensure it was not running it was on at break and lunch and YES they are encouraged and as is clearly stated just not fizzy drinks in school.... I wish the parents that are so upset would join the school association and governors to change it if they feel so strongly but they dont and noone complaining above has applied to be a parent governor need I say more
quote
Posted by: Realistic parent of hounsdown, hounsdown on 5:42pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Bambi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]sotonian[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Suzi[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]pug[/bold] wrote: Less of the whining about \'human rights\' please. let\'s keep it in context: it\'s a school uniform issue, it\'s not like they\'re being waterboarded by sadists.[/quote] No it\'s torture by those abusing their power and so yes it\'s human rights. Why don\'t you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot[/quote] don\'t the powers that be at Hounsdown realise that black absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a teachers light coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets. Its not rocket science!! At my school the pupils don\'t have to wear their jumpers after easter. Progress.[/quote] That \"black absorbs heat therefore black clothing makes you hot\" thing was debunked a while ago. All irrelevant, though, because a thick woollen jumper is gonna make you hot regardless of heat. The real point pug was making, and Suzi et al are failing quite spectacularly to grasp, is that - whilst unpleasant - is in no way \"torture\"[/quote] Its a black uniform after consultation with parents so it doesnt show the dirt ,,, now you want to change that fine join the school council ,,, too busy ,,,, then stop complaining
Bambi wrote:
sotonian wrote: Suzi wrote: pug wrote: Less of the whining about \'human rights\' please. let\'s keep it in context: it\'s a school uniform issue, it\'s not like they\'re being waterboarded by sadists.
No it\'s torture by those abusing their power and so yes it\'s human rights. Why don\'t you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you can handle it. Idiot
don\'t the powers that be at Hounsdown realise that black absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a teachers light coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets. Its not rocket science!! At my school the pupils don\'t have to wear their jumpers after easter. Progress.
That \"black absorbs heat therefore black clothing makes you hot\" thing was debunked a while ago. All irrelevant, though, because a thick woollen jumper is gonna make you hot regardless of heat. The real point pug was making, and Suzi et al are failing quite spectacularly to grasp, is that - whilst unpleasant - is in no way \"torture\"
Its a black uniform after consultation with parents so it doesnt show the dirt ,,, now you want to change that fine join the school council ,,, too busy ,,,, then stop complaining
Posted by: Bambi on 5:47pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Realistic parent of hounsdown[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Bambi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]sotonian[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Suzi[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]pug[/bold] wrote: Less of the whining about \'human
rights\' please. let\'s keep it in context: it\'s a school uniform
issue, it\'s not like they\'re being waterboarded by sadists.[/quote]
No it\'s torture by those abusing their power and so yes it\'s human
rights. Why don\'t you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you
can handle it. Idiot[/quote] don\'t the powers that be at Hounsdown
realise that black absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a
teachers light coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets.
Its not rocket science!! At my school the pupils don\'t have to wear
their jumpers after easter. Progress.[/quote] That \"black absorbs heat
therefore black clothing makes you hot\" thing was debunked a while
ago. All irrelevant, though, because a thick woollen jumper is gonna
make you hot regardless of heat. The real point pug was making, and
Suzi et al are failing quite spectacularly to grasp, is that - whilst
unpleasant - is in no way \"torture\"[/quote] Its a black uniform after
consultation with parents so it doesnt show the dirt ,,, now you want
to change that fine join the school council ,,, too busy ,,,, then stop
complaining[/quote] Either you've quoted the wrong post, or you've [italic]completely[/italic] failed to understand what I've said. Which is it?
I've just spotted a mistake in my post, as well. It should read "regardless of colour" not "regardless of heat". Oopsie
Realistic parent of hounsdown wrote:
Bambi wrote:
sotonian wrote: Suzi wrote:
pug wrote: Less of the whining about \'human
rights\' please. let\'s keep it in context: it\'s a school uniform
issue, it\'s not like they\'re being waterboarded by sadists.
No it\'s torture by those abusing their power and so yes it\'s human
rights. Why don\'t you wear a thick black jumper all day and see if you
can handle it. Idiot
don\'t the powers that be at Hounsdown
realise that black absorbs heat and therefore would be hotter than a
teachers light coloured clothing. Think of how hot a black car gets.
Its not rocket science!! At my school the pupils don\'t have to wear
their jumpers after easter. Progress.
That \"black absorbs heat
therefore black clothing makes you hot\" thing was debunked a while
ago. All irrelevant, though, because a thick woollen jumper is gonna
make you hot regardless of heat. The real point pug was making, and
Suzi et al are failing quite spectacularly to grasp, is that - whilst
unpleasant - is in no way \"torture\"
Its a black uniform after
consultation with parents so it doesnt show the dirt ,,, now you want
to change that fine join the school council ,,, too busy ,,,, then stop
complaining
Either you've quoted the wrong post, or you've
completely failed to understand what I've said. Which is it?
I've just spotted a mistake in my post, as well. It should read "regardless of colour" not "regardless of heat". Oopsie
Posted by: are you servious, Eling on 5:48pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]bunny[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Not true[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]bunny[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]fred[/bold] wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.[/quote] its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens![/quote] yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it[/quote] how rude!hope your not my childs teacher,and yes a phone call would be very nice thank you.well phoned the school and if a child asks then it shouldnt be a promblem.[/quote] Yes sure they will ring 1200 parents got plenty of time to do that, just will not teach your children,,, are you serious. Previous writer was correct, the information is there you should read it as a parent I did and Im glad someone is standing up for the school, so easy to throw stones If you that bother become a school governor or join association if you dont like the rules but the way to change them ,,,
bunny wrote:
Not true wrote: bunny wrote: fred wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.
its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens!
yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it
how rude!hope your not my childs teacher,and yes a phone call would be very nice thank you.well phoned the school and if a child asks then it shouldnt be a promblem.
Yes sure they will ring 1200 parents got plenty of time to do that, just will not teach your children,,, are you serious. Previous writer was correct, the information is there you should read it as a parent I did and Im glad someone is standing up for the school, so easy to throw stones If you that bother become a school governor or join association if you dont like the rules but the way to change them ,,,
Posted by: Now some comment sense, hounsdown on 6:00pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Pupil[/bold] wrote:
Im a pupil at the school and to be honest you cant blame the teachers because they are just told what to do and dont make up the rules, thats the heads job. And in the summer the pupils dont ask to take there jumpers off they just do it but in the winter they have to ask and no one gets detentions for it.[/quote] finally a pupil that confirms how much this has turned into a witch hunt - you can take your jumpers off -- you dont get detentions - thats for having the guts to tell these misinformed paretns the truth
Pupil wrote:
Im a pupil at the school and to be honest you cant blame the teachers because they are just told what to do and dont make up the rules, thats the heads job. And in the summer the pupils dont ask to take there jumpers off they just do it but in the winter they have to ask and no one gets detentions for it.
finally a pupil that confirms how much this has turned into a witch hunt - you can take your jumpers off -- you dont get detentions - thats for having the guts to tell these misinformed paretns the truth
Posted by: paul b on 6:10pm Tue 13 May 08
WHAT ANOTHER [bold]NON[/bold] STORY
Posted by: bunny, hamble on 7:00pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]are you servious[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]bunny[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Not true[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]bunny[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]fred[/bold] wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.[/quote] its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens![/quote] yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it[/quote] how rude!hope your not my childs teacher,and yes a phone call would be very nice thank you.well phoned the school and if a child asks then it shouldnt be a promblem.[/quote] Yes sure they will ring 1200 parents got plenty of time to do that, just will not teach your children,,, are you serious. Previous writer was correct, the information is there you should read it as a parent I did and Im glad someone is standing up for the school, so easy to throw stones If you that bother become a school governor or join association if you dont like the rules but the way to change them ,,,[/quote] like i said i rung the school and yes they can take blazers of if they ask which im pleased about.i havent got a problem with the school its good!i cant beleave u took me serious about the phone call,and dont throw stones i do help out at the school
are you servious wrote:
bunny wrote: Not true wrote: bunny wrote: fred wrote: Talk about an over the top reaction, comparisons to torture etc are a bit melodramatic. Instead of writing to the governors why not simply ask your child to raise their hand in class and ask to remove their jumper? This is simply a school rule that every parent agreed too when their child joined the school, so whats the problem? The kids should be obeying the rules and not rebelling as has been suggested here already.
its not as simple as that,when they start school we dont get told this so we havent agreed to let our son or daughter feel like there in ovens!
yes its in the school prosperus website and parent newsletter --- guess you dont read or take account of the information sent to you,,,, perhaps we should ring each parents who agreeds to the school uniform to check they read it
how rude!hope your not my childs teacher,and yes a phone call would be very nice thank you.well phoned the school and if a child asks then it shouldnt be a promblem.
Yes sure they will ring 1200 parents got plenty of time to do that, just will not teach your children,,, are you serious. Previous writer was correct, the information is there you should read it as a parent I did and Im glad someone is standing up for the school, so easy to throw stones If you that bother become a school governor or join association if you dont like the rules but the way to change them ,,,
like i said i rung the school and yes they can take blazers of if they ask which im pleased about.i havent got a problem with the school its good!i cant beleave u took me serious about the phone call,and dont throw stones i do help out at the school
Posted by: Grandmother on 7:10pm Tue 13 May 08
We have been told on the phone by the Deputy Head that once they leave the classroom sweatshirts had to be put on again and had to be worn outside in their lunch and breaktime. This may have changed from Monday since the press were outside the gates.
We have been told on the phone by the Deputy Head that once they leave the classroom sweatshirts had to be put on again and had to be worn outside in their lunch and breaktime. This may have changed from Monday since the press were outside the gates.
Posted by: John, Lyndhurst on 7:22pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]get the facts right[/bold] wrote:
LET GET SOME FACTS RATHER THAN GOSSIP. I work at this school and yes the kids need to ask to take their jumpers off. THATS MANNERS REMEMBER THOSE However NEVER have I heard or seen a pupil refused, noone is ever given a detention who asks to take it off FACT. The taps where turned off during lesson time (not break or lunch) because the children left them running and earlier. Some children were not just spashing their faces but sooking others people walking passed and making water bombs. FACT Torture ? Human rights ? I suggest these people look up the meaning of the word you can not compaire this to Torture, get a life its nothing of the sort. Ask true victims how they feel, it nothing like what they have suffured. -- If this is the best new the Echo can make up from hearsay I feel sorry for the readers who believe it, check your facts first its like chinese whispers ...[/quote] The facts are that I sent an e-mail to the school last Thursday, as follows:
[italic]Dear Miss Nightingale
My grand-daughter has mentioned to me that she was expected to wear her school jumper at school today. With outside temperatures of over 24 degrees, this would seem to be an unreasonable rule to be enforced on such a lovely day. I am sure that all members of staff were not expected to wear woollen cardigans or jumpers, and I would hope that you have every concern for your pupils welfare and comfort.
It has been suggested to me that the rule is enforced to impose a discipline on the children, as in a workplace they will have to wear suits, whatever the weather. I work in an office environment, and today all staff were without jackets. If such a rule was enforced in the workplace, no doubt the workers would just go home, but of course the children do not have that freedom.
May I request that tomorrow the children of your school are told that they do not have to wear jumpers or cardigans during the warm summer months, but may turn up in presentable shirts or blouses.
Apologies if my information is incorrect, and if so perhaps you will inform me what regulations are in force.[/italic]
So far, the school have not had the courtesy to reply to my e-mail. Enough said.
get the facts right wrote:
LET GET SOME FACTS RATHER THAN GOSSIP. I work at this school and yes the kids need to ask to take their jumpers off. THATS MANNERS REMEMBER THOSE However NEVER have I heard or seen a pupil refused, noone is ever given a detention who asks to take it off FACT. The taps where turned off during lesson time (not break or lunch) because the children left them running and earlier. Some children were not just spashing their faces but sooking others people walking passed and making water bombs. FACT Torture ? Human rights ? I suggest these people look up the meaning of the word you can not compaire this to Torture, get a life its nothing of the sort. Ask true victims how they feel, it nothing like what they have suffured. -- If this is the best new the Echo can make up from hearsay I feel sorry for the readers who believe it, check your facts first its like chinese whispers ...
The facts are that I sent an e-mail to the school last Thursday, as follows:
Dear Miss Nightingale
My grand-daughter has mentioned to me that she was expected to wear her school jumper at school today. With outside temperatures of over 24 degrees, this would seem to be an unreasonable rule to be enforced on such a lovely day. I am sure that all members of staff were not expected to wear woollen cardigans or jumpers, and I would hope that you have every concern for your pupils welfare and comfort.
It has been suggested to me that the rule is enforced to impose a discipline on the children, as in a workplace they will have to wear suits, whatever the weather. I work in an office environment, and today all staff were without jackets. If such a rule was enforced in the workplace, no doubt the workers would just go home, but of course the children do not have that freedom.
May I request that tomorrow the children of your school are told that they do not have to wear jumpers or cardigans during the warm summer months, but may turn up in presentable shirts or blouses.
Apologies if my information is incorrect, and if so perhaps you will inform me what regulations are in force.
So far, the school have not had the courtesy to reply to my e-mail. Enough said.
Posted by: Henry's Mate's Mate, henry Land on 7:29pm Tue 13 May 08
Is it hot in here or just me?? maybe I should just take my jumper off....
Is it hot in here or just me?? maybe I should just take my jumper off....
Posted by: Jannersaint, Plymuff on 8:14pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Sue[/bold] wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.[/quote] Amazing how a school jumper story can get to Policing issues!!
Standards are one thing and there's no doubt that kids need some discipline, BUT, why can't the Head Teacher just make a day non jumper day when the forecast dictates the need, or do what my employer does with ties and make them optional between May 1st and Oct 1st. There does still need to be some rules for kids but they should also be able to make independent decisions within some guidlines.
Sue wrote:
This is why our society is in such moral decline because nobody obeys rules/laws. Even the church people fail to obey basic laws like not riding on the pavement and not parking on yellow lines. They also fail to apologise when they are in the wrong. Rules/Laws are there for a purpose. It is teaching manners. What on earth is wrong with a student asking politely to remove their jumper? It is teaching basic social skills which many people do not have. It is teaching communication between student and adults. University students have no idea how to communicate with adults. Our society would be a better place if all laws were implemented. Sadly the police are no longer interested in upholding laws either.
Amazing how a school jumper story can get to Policing issues!!
Standards are one thing and there's no doubt that kids need some discipline, BUT, why can't the Head Teacher just make a day non jumper day when the forecast dictates the need, or do what my employer does with ties and make them optional between May 1st and Oct 1st. There does still need to be some rules for kids but they should also be able to make independent decisions within some guidlines.
