Today's most viewed
‘Let’s buy the land and kill off ABP plans’
COUNCIL chiefs are
being urged to buy a
stretch of New Forest
coastline to safeguard
it from a massive dock
development.
Controversial plans by
Associated British Ports (ABP)
to build a new container terminal
at Dibden Bay appeared to
be dead in the water following
a Government decision
four years ago.
However, the Daily Echo
last week revealed how
port bosses still harboured
hopes of developing the
reclaimed land.
Now Hampshire County
Council is being asked to
consider joining forces
with other authorities tomake a
bid for the heavily protected
site.
Cllr David Harrison, whose
ward covers the area, believes
that ABP would listen to a suitable
offer. He claimed that the
area had "massive potential" as
public open space and that the
cost of buying it would eventually
be recouped via parking
and access fees.
He said: "The best way to see
off this threat is for the county
council to purchase this important
site.
"If the county councilmakes a
reasonable offer, possibly in
partnership with other local
authorities, then shareholders
of Associated British Ports
would have to consider selling."
The £600m scheme was rejected
following a 13-month public
inquiry four years ago, but the
issue surfaced again last week
at the Port City Futures conference
attended by marine minister
Jonathon Shaw.
Port director Doug Morrison
received a rapturous round of
applause after revealing that
ABP still wanted to forge ahead
with the scheme.
Some countryside campaigners
have dismissed the comments,
while others fear that a
proposed shake-up in planning
laws could make it easier for
such projects to take place.
A spokesman for ABP said
that the company had "absolutely
no plans" to reapply for permission
to develop Dibden Bay
but admitted that managers
were keeping their options
open.
He was unable to comment
on Cllr Harrison's proposal
that the county council
should purchase the land.
He said: "We need to safeguard
the land in case we ever
want to proceed with any
future developments."
4:36am Thursday 7th August 2008
Print 
Email this 
CommentPosted by: Captain Sensible, Southampton on 6:11am Thu 7 Aug 08
A good use of stretched resources ?
A good use of stretched resources ?
Posted by: PAUL B on 6:45am Thu 7 Aug 08
USUAL NIMBY NONSENSE, BEHIND A CAUSE UNTIL THEY HAVE TO PUT THEIR HANDS IN THEIR POCKETS
USUAL NIMBY NONSENSE, BEHIND A CAUSE UNTIL THEY HAVE TO PUT THEIR HANDS IN THEIR POCKETS
Posted by: Cllr Chris Lagdon, Totton New Forest on 7:17am Thu 7 Aug 08
Excellent idea from that well known band wagon jumper Harrison , why dont we buy the B.A.T ground at Totton as well and put up the council tax even more.. It must be close to the Hampshire elections !!!!
Excellent idea from that well known band wagon jumper Harrison , why dont we buy the B.A.T ground at Totton as well and put up the council tax even more.. It must be close to the Hampshire elections !!!!
Posted by: Private Pike, In the realms of fantasy on 7:47am Thu 7 Aug 08
Fantasy. Is this Lib Dem policy on the County Council?
Fantasy. Is this Lib Dem policy on the County Council?
Posted by: Great Idea! on 7:53am Thu 7 Aug 08
I think it's a good idea... BUT... [bold]the money to buy the land should only come from those people who are dead against the development of Didben Bay into a container port[/bold]
Let's see if they are willing to put their money where their mouth is eh?
I think it's a good idea... BUT...
the money to buy the land should only come from those people who are dead against the development of Didben Bay into a container port
Let's see if they are willing to put their money where their mouth is eh?
Posted by: Andy, Locks Heath on 7:59am Thu 7 Aug 08
So that's why you were elected Cllr Harrison, to turn away investment, destroy future employment prospects for school leavers, and jeopardise the local economy. And your your alternative "plan" for Dibden Bay is? to pour scorn on enterprise and instead do nothing at all with it. Yes that about sums up your calibre really.
So that's why you were elected Cllr Harrison, to turn away investment, destroy future employment prospects for school leavers, and jeopardise the local economy. And your your alternative "plan" for Dibden Bay is? to pour scorn on enterprise and instead do nothing at all with it. Yes that about sums up your calibre really.
Posted by: Build It, New Forest on 8:02am Thu 7 Aug 08
Dam you do gooders, the land is there for future dock expansion and always has been. You all want your goods in the shops 24hrs a day, and to pay cheap prices for them. All these containers have to come in somewhere. Get a life and move on with the times, and that goes for all them complaining about truck movements in Marchwood. No trucks, no goods in the shops.
Dam you do gooders, the land is there for future dock expansion and always has been. You all want your goods in the shops 24hrs a day, and to pay cheap prices for them. All these containers have to come in somewhere. Get a life and move on with the times, and that goes for all them complaining about truck movements in Marchwood. No trucks, no goods in the shops.
Posted by: Marchwood Boy on 8:15am Thu 7 Aug 08
"Cllr David Harrison, whose ward covers the area, believes that ABP would listen to a suitable offer. He claimed that the area had "massive potential" as public open space and that the cost of buying it would eventually be recouped via parking and access fees"
Eventually be recouped via parking fees? Yeah, after about 75 years! In the meantime, it would be taxpayers money buying the land and taxpayers money for the upkeep of it. As a local taxpayer who was always in favour of the ABP plans, I strongly object to my council tax being used for one councillors fantasy.
Now that I'm aware of Mr Harrison (strange as a Marchwood resident that I've never heard of him before) I will vote against him at the next polls.
"Cllr David Harrison, whose ward covers the area, believes that ABP would listen to a suitable offer. He claimed that the area had "massive potential" as public open space and that the cost of buying it would eventually be recouped via parking and access fees"
Eventually be recouped via parking fees? Yeah, after about 75 years! In the meantime, it would be taxpayers money buying the land and taxpayers money for the upkeep of it. As a local taxpayer who was always in favour of the ABP plans, I strongly object to my council tax being used for one councillors fantasy.
Now that I'm aware of Mr Harrison (strange as a Marchwood resident that I've never heard of him before) I will vote against him at the next polls.
Posted by: Saint Ash, Redbridge on 8:19am Thu 7 Aug 08
And of course ABP are going to sell prime waterfront land at a price the local Council will be able to afford!
Just how much money does The New Forest DC have in it's coffers then, as I'm sure there are local services that could use the money in far better ways.What a stupid comment from an ellected offical.
And of course ABP are going to sell prime waterfront land at a price the local Council will be able to afford!
Just how much money does The New Forest DC have in it's coffers then, as I'm sure there are local services that could use the money in far better ways.What a stupid comment from an ellected offical.
Posted by: Andrew, Totton on 8:36am Thu 7 Aug 08
What a daft idea , this shows Cllr David Harrison to be a bit silly really. If he is so sure it will make the money back and be viable why doesnt he just approach the bank himself for a loan to buy the land himself, as banks back good ideas which make money......
If this idea is not viable which is very obvious the bank would not back him.
This just reads as a very uneducated off the cuff comment by someone with no commercail knowledge or care about tax payers. money.
Does he think he could just nick the land of ABP ?
Are ABP really that stupid that they would even think about selling the land?
If he has thought it through so much can we have the figure he will be offering please?
What a daft idea , this shows Cllr David Harrison to be a bit silly really. If he is so sure it will make the money back and be viable why doesnt he just approach the bank himself for a loan to buy the land himself, as banks back good ideas which make money......
If this idea is not viable which is very obvious the bank would not back him.
This just reads as a very uneducated off the cuff comment by someone with no commercail knowledge or care about tax payers. money.
Does he think he could just nick the land of ABP ?
Are ABP really that stupid that they would even think about selling the land?
If he has thought it through so much can we have the figure he will be offering please?
Posted by: Ted, Southampton on 9:00am Thu 7 Aug 08
Take a leaf out of Friends of the Earth from the 60's. Buy a plot of land surrounding it and then resell the land to thousands of people in 1 metre chunks. Makes purchasing the land back a nightmare.
As for the laughable excuse of thinking about the importing of white goods etc, that's what Shellhaven is for. Dibden isn't for national interests, it's so ABP can create a new dock so they can sell off prime land in the current docks. Look at their other ports and you'll see what I mean.
Where do I sign up for my plot of land?
Take a leaf out of Friends of the Earth from the 60's. Buy a plot of land surrounding it and then resell the land to thousands of people in 1 metre chunks. Makes purchasing the land back a nightmare.
As for the laughable excuse of thinking about the importing of white goods etc, that's what Shellhaven is for. Dibden isn't for national interests, it's so ABP can create a new dock so they can sell off prime land in the current docks. Look at their other ports and you'll see what I mean.
Where do I sign up for my plot of land?
Posted by: Marchwood Boy on 9:02am Thu 7 Aug 08
Ted, what prime land in the docks is this then?
How much money will they get for the sale of this prime land? How will that compare to the ongoing profits they earn from using this prime land as a Container Port?
Ted, what prime land in the docks is this then?
How much money will they get for the sale of this prime land? How will that compare to the ongoing profits they earn from using this prime land as a Container Port?
Posted by: Harsh, but True on 10:00am Thu 7 Aug 08
There is your foot Councillor Harrison. Now take aim, Fire!
Sometimes people should learn when to keep their mouths shut. This will only make ABP stick their heels in even more.
There is your foot Councillor Harrison. Now take aim, Fire!
Sometimes people should learn when to keep their mouths shut. This will only make ABP stick their heels in even more.
Posted by: Utter smack tards, Southampton on 10:23am Thu 7 Aug 08
So we have Ford closing down, BAT gone, other business's going to the wall, a total lack of investment in the area and other building projects being stalled... let me get this right, Asociated Ports want to expand their buisness here and make a substantial invetsment into the local economy and people are against it????
Wjere does the council think it's taxes will come from when half their ward are unemployed???
Jobs at Ikea and MCdonalds are hardly going to grow this city are they??????
So we have Ford closing down, BAT gone, other business's going to the wall, a total lack of investment in the area and other building projects being stalled... let me get this right, Asociated Ports want to expand their buisness here and make a substantial invetsment into the local economy and people are against it????
Wjere does the council think it's taxes will come from when half their ward are unemployed???
Jobs at Ikea and MCdonalds are hardly going to grow this city are they??????
Posted by: northy, baddesley on 10:24am Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Ted[/bold] wrote:
Take a leaf out of Friends of the Earth from the 60's. Buy a plot of land surrounding it and then resell the land to thousands of people in 1 metre chunks. Makes purchasing the land back a nightmare. As for the laughable excuse of thinking about the importing of white goods etc, that's what Shellhaven is for. Dibden isn't for national interests, it's so ABP can create a new dock so they can sell off prime land in the current docks. Look at their other ports and you'll see what I mean. Where do I sign up for my plot of land?[/quote] This spurious argument that ABP will sell off land in the existing port area IF Dibden Bay (and it is a big if)is developed is compromised by the fact that the Cruise Terminals/Container Terminal/Bulk terminal/Fruit Terminal et al are signed up to long term agreements.
ABP are now owned by Pension funds. These pension funds are more concerned about getting a regular return from their investment than satisfying the more immediate demands of the share market as was the case when ABP was a publically listed company.
Ted wrote:
Take a leaf out of Friends of the Earth from the 60's. Buy a plot of land surrounding it and then resell the land to thousands of people in 1 metre chunks. Makes purchasing the land back a nightmare. As for the laughable excuse of thinking about the importing of white goods etc, that's what Shellhaven is for. Dibden isn't for national interests, it's so ABP can create a new dock so they can sell off prime land in the current docks. Look at their other ports and you'll see what I mean. Where do I sign up for my plot of land?
This spurious argument that ABP will sell off land in the existing port area IF Dibden Bay (and it is a big if)is developed is compromised by the fact that the Cruise Terminals/Container Terminal/Bulk terminal/Fruit Terminal et al are signed up to long term agreements.
ABP are now owned by Pension funds. These pension funds are more concerned about getting a regular return from their investment than satisfying the more immediate demands of the share market as was the case when ABP was a publically listed company.
Posted by: Ted, Southampton on 10:32am Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]northy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Ted[/bold] wrote: Take a leaf out of Friends of the Earth from the 60's. Buy a plot of land surrounding it and then resell the land to thousands of people in 1 metre chunks. Makes purchasing the land back a nightmare. As for the laughable excuse of thinking about the importing of white goods etc, that's what Shellhaven is for. Dibden isn't for national interests, it's so ABP can create a new dock so they can sell off prime land in the current docks. Look at their other ports and you'll see what I mean. Where do I sign up for my plot of land?[/quote] This spurious argument that ABP will sell off land in the existing port area IF Dibden Bay (and it is a big if)is developed is compromised by the fact that the Cruise Terminals/Container Terminal/Bulk terminal/Fruit Terminal et al are signed up to long term agreements. ABP are now owned by Pension funds. These pension funds are more concerned about getting a regular return from their investment than satisfying the more immediate demands of the share market as was the case when ABP was a publically listed company.[/quote] Spurious? I work there...
northy wrote:
Ted wrote: Take a leaf out of Friends of the Earth from the 60's. Buy a plot of land surrounding it and then resell the land to thousands of people in 1 metre chunks. Makes purchasing the land back a nightmare. As for the laughable excuse of thinking about the importing of white goods etc, that's what Shellhaven is for. Dibden isn't for national interests, it's so ABP can create a new dock so they can sell off prime land in the current docks. Look at their other ports and you'll see what I mean. Where do I sign up for my plot of land?
This spurious argument that ABP will sell off land in the existing port area IF Dibden Bay (and it is a big if)is developed is compromised by the fact that the Cruise Terminals/Container Terminal/Bulk terminal/Fruit Terminal et al are signed up to long term agreements. ABP are now owned by Pension funds. These pension funds are more concerned about getting a regular return from their investment than satisfying the more immediate demands of the share market as was the case when ABP was a publically listed company.
Spurious? I work there...
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 12:02pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ABP will bide their time until the Shellhaven terminal is at full capacity (initial estimates suggest 7-8 years) and then Dibden Bay will be very much back on the agenda with a much greater chance of success.
Those who argued in the past that full use was not being made of existing port land for shipping purposes had a fair argument in my view, however Bacardi, STC Communications, Royal Mail all the big land users are now gone and all this land is now being used for container storage or other port related purposes so this argument is now null & void!
Dibden Bay as a port facility will happen it's a case of when not if!!!
ABP will bide their time until the Shellhaven terminal is at full capacity (initial estimates suggest 7-8 years) and then Dibden Bay will be very much back on the agenda with a much greater chance of success.
Those who argued in the past that full use was not being made of existing port land for shipping purposes had a fair argument in my view, however Bacardi, STC Communications, Royal Mail all the big land users are now gone and all this land is now being used for container storage or other port related purposes so this argument is now null & void!
Dibden Bay as a port facility will happen it's a case of when not if!!!
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 12:09pm Thu 7 Aug 08
I should have added that as a result of my comments above I would be gobsmacked if ABP will consider selling the Dibden Bay land at any price!
I should have added that as a result of my comments above I would be gobsmacked if ABP will consider selling the Dibden Bay land at any price!
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 12:18pm Thu 7 Aug 08
I should also add that although I work for ABP I am not a company spokesman!!!
All my comments are educated guesswork based on what I would do if I was part of the management!!
I should also add that although I work for ABP I am not a company spokesman!!!
All my comments are educated guesswork based on what I would do if I was part of the management!!
Posted by: THE BRICK on 1:21pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Good place to build an [bold]ice rink[/bold]
[bold]GIVE US WHAT WE WANT, AND THEN WE'LL GO AWAY[/bold]
Good place to build an
ice rink
GIVE US WHAT WE WANT, AND THEN WE'LL GO AWAY Posted by: northy, north baddesley on 1:28pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote:
ABP will bide their time until the Shellhaven terminal is at full capacity (initial estimates suggest 7-8 years) and then Dibden Bay will be very much back on the agenda with a much greater chance of success. Those who argued in the past that full use was not being made of existing port land for shipping purposes had a fair argument in my view, however Bacardi, STC Communications, Royal Mail all the big land users are now gone and all this land is now being used for container storage or other port related purposes so this argument is now null & void! Dibden Bay as a port facility will happen it's a case of when not if!!! [/quote] The reason that Bacardi/STC/Royal Mail/A&P are now gone is that their leases ended so ABP have been able to use the land for cargo related activity. This suits their purpose much better.
Southampton is an extremely well place port for trade so there will always likely be interest from ship owners
ABP Employee wrote:
ABP will bide their time until the Shellhaven terminal is at full capacity (initial estimates suggest 7-8 years) and then Dibden Bay will be very much back on the agenda with a much greater chance of success. Those who argued in the past that full use was not being made of existing port land for shipping purposes had a fair argument in my view, however Bacardi, STC Communications, Royal Mail all the big land users are now gone and all this land is now being used for container storage or other port related purposes so this argument is now null & void! Dibden Bay as a port facility will happen it's a case of when not if!!!
The reason that Bacardi/STC/Royal Mail/A&P are now gone is that their leases ended so ABP have been able to use the land for cargo related activity. This suits their purpose much better.
Southampton is an extremely well place port for trade so there will always likely be interest from ship owners
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 1:35pm Thu 7 Aug 08
lol i find this funny,it could be just what ABP wants,has the land can be class has farm land with business intrest,they can ask more than the market value.look what ABP done to date sold up there intrest in the container port,and use it for the thames prodject,they know container ships will get much bigger.this might be the real reason why all the rumours just of late.they want to sell the land but they need to be able to dictate the price of the land.
andy remember what i said in a post a mth or so ago.
lol i find this funny,it could be just what ABP wants,has the land can be class has farm land with business intrest,they can ask more than the market value.look what ABP done to date sold up there intrest in the container port,and use it for the thames prodject,they know container ships will get much bigger.this might be the real reason why all the rumours just of late.they want to sell the land but they need to be able to dictate the price of the land.
andy remember what i said in a post a mth or so ago.
Posted by: wild bill, millbrook hous est on 1:36pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Looks like NFC has walk right into that one.
Looks like NFC has walk right into that one.
Posted by: Soton Realist, Southampton on 1:37pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ABP want to expand to allow their business to grow. Does it really make long term sense to then sell of their existing terminal only to be restricted in capacity further down the road?? Doesn't matter if it's in Southampton or anywhere else in the country, new ports and airports will need to be built to keep up with demand and a growing economy. That's just life, deal with it!
ABP want to expand to allow their business to grow. Does it really make long term sense to then sell of their existing terminal only to be restricted in capacity further down the road?? Doesn't matter if it's in Southampton or anywhere else in the country, new ports and airports will need to be built to keep up with demand and a growing economy. That's just life, deal with it!
Posted by: echo reader on 1:42pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[bold]Big Business[/bold]
[bold]v[/bold]
[bold]David[/bold] (Harisson )
No contest.
Goliath wins this time around.
Scratching his head in puzzlement, and pondering why the Locals voted him out of office, Little, Looney, Loser, David watches a spanking new port take shape in his back garden.
Big Business
v
David (Harisson )
No contest.
Goliath wins this time around.
Scratching his head in puzzlement, and pondering why the Locals voted him out of office, Little, Looney, Loser, David watches a spanking new port take shape in his back garden.
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 1:45pm Thu 7 Aug 08
i said a while back that ABP wants to expand, just it not going to be southampton,they are putting all the container money in to the container project on the thames,
theres lots of things you got to remember and the main one s is southampton docks only has southampton bough rights and entrence chennel,out side them lines they have no power.
i said a while back that ABP wants to expand, just it not going to be southampton,they are putting all the container money in to the container project on the thames,
theres lots of things you got to remember and the main one s is southampton docks only has southampton bough rights and entrence chennel,out side them lines they have no power.
Posted by: Alan Richards, Doha Qatar on 1:58pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Dibden Bay, by its very name tells you that this was once part of the sea. This land was reclaimed to be used for future Dockland, many many years before most of the Nimbys along the Waterside moved there. Their grevances should be with whichever lawyer carried out the survey on their new property, for not pointing out that this land was always designated for Dock developement, and will surely be so shortly. They have only themselves to blame, for not doing their homework
Dibden Bay, by its very name tells you that this was once part of the sea. This land was reclaimed to be used for future Dockland, many many years before most of the Nimbys along the Waterside moved there. Their grevances should be with whichever lawyer carried out the survey on their new property, for not pointing out that this land was always designated for Dock developement, and will surely be so shortly. They have only themselves to blame, for not doing their homework
Posted by: the vengeful cabbage on 2:02pm Thu 7 Aug 08
May prove difficult if the local branch of the retards society for the protection of birds decide to hold a protest. That could put a real spanner in the works, still we could allways put some lovely flats and an ice rink on the land.
May prove difficult if the local branch of the retards society for the protection of birds decide to hold a protest. That could put a real spanner in the works, still we could allways put some lovely flats and an ice rink on the land.
Posted by: Bill, Itchen on 2:06pm Thu 7 Aug 08
southy is very keen on the idea that ABP are going to abandon soton for the thames, but there operation there is only a threeway split (I thnk between them, DP and forth). no wonder they want to develop a site for themselves not just to share with competiors.
southy is very keen on the idea that ABP are going to abandon soton for the thames, but there operation there is only a threeway split (I thnk between them, DP and forth). no wonder they want to develop a site for themselves not just to share with competiors.
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 2:39pm Thu 7 Aug 08
I see a couple of people have commented that ABP have sold their share in the container teminal which is incorrect!
D.P World Southampton is a joint venture company between Dubai Ports and ABP with D.P World holding the majority stake at 51% and ABP 49%.
This is the same share that ABP have held in the container terminal since the days that the docks were privatised, so nothing has changed and if Dibden Bay is ever developed then this would almost certainly be done in conjunction with D.P World on the same partnership basis.
I see a couple of people have commented that ABP have sold their share in the container teminal which is incorrect!
D.P World Southampton is a joint venture company between Dubai Ports and ABP with D.P World holding the majority stake at 51% and ABP 49%.
This is the same share that ABP have held in the container terminal since the days that the docks were privatised, so nothing has changed and if Dibden Bay is ever developed then this would almost certainly be done in conjunction with D.P World on the same partnership basis.
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 2:42pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ABP will not total abandon southampton they hold the key to passenger ships.has long they dont get much bigger than they are now,another key factor theres is no bough rights on the river thames like there is here in southampton,and when you see how much room there is on the thames ,they could expand 10 times more than they could in southampton, then there how deep the water is its deeper naturely and the channel is wider and straight.
ABP will not total abandon southampton they hold the key to passenger ships.has long they dont get much bigger than they are now,another key factor theres is no bough rights on the river thames like there is here in southampton,and when you see how much room there is on the thames ,they could expand 10 times more than they could in southampton, then there how deep the water is its deeper naturely and the channel is wider and straight.
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 2:54pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ABP Employee i dont know alot about shares,but am i right in thinking that if one group holds more than 50% they can put in to buy the rest.
more than likely abp holding on to there 49% just for the lease on the land.
ABP Employee i dont know alot about shares,but am i right in thinking that if one group holds more than 50% they can put in to buy the rest.
more than likely abp holding on to there 49% just for the lease on the land.
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 3:02pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Southy the arrangement suits ABP down to the ground.
They take 49% of whatever profit the container terminal makes without having to operate the terminal and they still ultimately own the land so D.P World cannot actually do anything substantial without ABP's agreement, win win for ABP the paper shareholding is more or less irrelevant!
Southy the arrangement suits ABP down to the ground.
They take 49% of whatever profit the container terminal makes without having to operate the terminal and they still ultimately own the land so D.P World cannot actually do anything substantial without ABP's agreement, win win for ABP the paper shareholding is more or less irrelevant!
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 3:10pm Thu 7 Aug 08
yes but like i said can dp put in a bid for the rest of the share if they want to.
the freehold land is own by 4 familys and the waterboard.i know this because my family is one of the freeholders.
yes but like i said can dp put in a bid for the rest of the share if they want to.
the freehold land is own by 4 familys and the waterboard.i know this because my family is one of the freeholders.
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 3:15pm Thu 7 Aug 08
That being the case I assume the leasehold is in the name of ABP not D.P World in which case same result.
Pretty sure you will also find under company law that a company can only compulsorily bid for 100% of the shares, where they have a 75% or greater stockholding not the case here!
That being the case I assume the leasehold is in the name of ABP not D.P World in which case same result.
Pretty sure you will also find under company law that a company can only compulsorily bid for 100% of the shares, where they have a 75% or greater stockholding not the case here!
Posted by: Detective Columbo, Pumpfield Farm Precinct on 3:17pm Thu 7 Aug 08
There's just one thing I don't understand Councillor. You said you objected to the port because of the additional traffic, yet in your business case you reckon to recoup to purchase cost by "parking fees". So how many thousands of cars do you see in your business plan councillor? How are you going to manage it without increasing local traffic councillor? Is that why you're only a 2 bit politician and not a real businessman councillor?
There's just one thing I don't understand Councillor. You said you objected to the port because of the additional traffic, yet in your business case you reckon to recoup to purchase cost by "parking fees". So how many thousands of cars do you see in your business plan councillor? How are you going to manage it without increasing local traffic councillor? Is that why you're only a 2 bit politician and not a real businessman councillor?
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 3:23pm Thu 7 Aug 08
thats was i wanted to know ABP Employee, like i said i dont know alot about shares only what i see in the papers
thats was i wanted to know ABP Employee, like i said i dont know alot about shares only what i see in the papers
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 3:35pm Thu 7 Aug 08
No worries southy, anyway to be honest sounds like we're singing from the same hymsheet, i'm surprised the nimby crew have'nt been on here spouting their usual propaganda!
No worries southy, anyway to be honest sounds like we're singing from the same hymsheet, i'm surprised the nimby crew have'nt been on here spouting their usual propaganda!
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 3:44pm Thu 7 Aug 08
wait for it they be here soon lol.
wait for it they be here soon lol.
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southeampton on 3:49pm Thu 7 Aug 08
True enough Southy I expect all the Hythe marina nimby's have either been out on their yachts for the day, or up in London earning their fat city salaries, wait until they're back home and see all this somebody will have a heart attack lol!
True enough Southy I expect all the Hythe marina nimby's have either been out on their yachts for the day, or up in London earning their fat city salaries, wait until they're back home and see all this somebody will have a heart attack lol!
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 3:54pm Thu 7 Aug 08
boy i wish some of the would,when they are out on that river sailing they are a menice, have no regaurds for other river users, like the time when i was working the sea horse.
boy i wish some of the would,when they are out on that river sailing they are a menice, have no regaurds for other river users, like the time when i was working the sea horse.
Posted by: clair, Soton on 3:58pm Thu 7 Aug 08
It does not matter what will happen in the future - we the British will recoup everything that WAS ours. Build and we will reap and benefit eventually - we are not daft.
clair
It does not matter what will happen in the future - we the British will recoup everything that WAS ours. Build and we will reap and benefit eventually - we are not daft.
clair
Posted by: Doozer, Totton on 4:17pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Come on ye nimbys, its about time that the area had a good shot in the arm, investment is what is called for to allow us all to prosper.
We are and always have been an Island nation, that makes it money through trade. So surely the right thing to do is invest in your children and their childrens future.
Come on ye nimbys, its about time that the area had a good shot in the arm, investment is what is called for to allow us all to prosper.
We are and always have been an Island nation, that makes it money through trade. So surely the right thing to do is invest in your children and their childrens future.
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 4:33pm Thu 7 Aug 08
doozer its more of a case if you build on it make sure its the right type of building,in this case more docks may not be the answer,maybe a factory of some sort to export stuff out
doozer its more of a case if you build on it make sure its the right type of building,in this case more docks may not be the answer,maybe a factory of some sort to export stuff out
Posted by: Finnbar Saunders, Viz Mag UK on 4:37pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]southy[/bold] wrote:
boy i wish some of the would,when they are out on that river sailing they are a menice, have no regaurds for other river users, like the time when i was working the sea horse.[/quote] ..working the seahorse?..fnarr fnarr
southy wrote:
boy i wish some of the would,when they are out on that river sailing they are a menice, have no regaurds for other river users, like the time when i was working the sea horse.
..working the seahorse?..fnarr fnarr
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 5:01pm Thu 7 Aug 08
I have no objections on the building of Dibden Bay if ABP could categorically say that it would not be at the expense of selling off existing port owned land for redevlopment within a 30-40 year period. Can they swear to the people of Southampton and the local areas that they are not planning on building a new port at the expense of a quick buck elsewhere.
Once they prove this then they have my vote but at the moment I'm believing the rumours.
I have no objections on the building of Dibden Bay if ABP could categorically say that it would not be at the expense of selling off existing port owned land for redevlopment within a 30-40 year period. Can they swear to the people of Southampton and the local areas that they are not planning on building a new port at the expense of a quick buck elsewhere.
Once they prove this then they have my vote but at the moment I'm believing the rumours.
Posted by: ABP Employee, Sluthampton on 5:25pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Well Ed all the available port land is currently in use and the only known requirement for the forseeable future is for expansion requiring the use of Dibden Bay.
In 30-40 years who knows what the situation will be everything might be transported by air although I could hardly see that you're being a tad unrealistic methinks!
Well Ed all the available port land is currently in use and the only known requirement for the forseeable future is for expansion requiring the use of Dibden Bay.
In 30-40 years who knows what the situation will be everything might be transported by air although I could hardly see that you're being a tad unrealistic methinks!
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 5:29pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote:
Well Ed all the available port land is currently in use and the only known requirement for the forseeable future is for expansion requiring the use of Dibden Bay. In 30-40 years who knows what the situation will be everything might be transported by air although I could hardly see that you're being a tad unrealistic methinks![/quote] ABP Employee - if you are a real employee then if you worked for me I'd question the amount of time you spend on the internet during the working day rather than getting on with your primary job..which is what exactly..? You sound like a monkey and not an organ grinder. Given the blarney ABP spout about the long term national interest (coveniently forgetting Shellhaven), I don't think it is a tad unrealistic to have someone categorically say that they won't sell off land once Dibden is up and running. Now run along a get one of the grown ups!
ABP Employee wrote:
Well Ed all the available port land is currently in use and the only known requirement for the forseeable future is for expansion requiring the use of Dibden Bay. In 30-40 years who knows what the situation will be everything might be transported by air although I could hardly see that you're being a tad unrealistic methinks!
ABP Employee - if you are a real employee then if you worked for me I'd question the amount of time you spend on the internet during the working day rather than getting on with your primary job..which is what exactly..? You sound like a monkey and not an organ grinder. Given the blarney ABP spout about the long term national interest (coveniently forgetting Shellhaven), I don't think it is a tad unrealistic to have someone categorically say that they won't sell off land once Dibden is up and running. Now run along a get one of the grown ups!
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 5:37pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Ed you sound like the usual nimby idiot who can't come up with a coherent argument to support your case, read the previous posts plenty of discussion including Shellhaven at length, back to your yacht for a G&T jolly hockeysticks lol!
Ed you sound like the usual nimby idiot who can't come up with a coherent argument to support your case, read the previous posts plenty of discussion including Shellhaven at length, back to your yacht for a G&T jolly hockeysticks lol!
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 5:40pm Thu 7 Aug 08
lol told ya they come out of the wood work sooner or later,they been busy on the helipad posting
lol told ya they come out of the wood work sooner or later,they been busy on the helipad posting
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 5:45pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ABP Employee, I'm not a NIMBY, I would like to see Dibden Bay made for genuine reasons but don't see ABP making any comment on their long term plans or categorically saying that they won't sell off land for redevelopment. If they did, then they have my vote.
Seeing as Ocean Gate knock off at about 4.30 you must be VTS then and therefore not really in the know.
I think ABP would get more support if someone much higher than Doug Morrison such as Chris Clark or Peter Jones said outright that they were not selling off port estate once Dibden went up. Unless again you are Doug Morrison and if so, why not make a public statement and at the same time a lot of friends?
ABP Employee, I'm not a NIMBY, I would like to see Dibden Bay made for genuine reasons but don't see ABP making any comment on their long term plans or categorically saying that they won't sell off land for redevelopment. If they did, then they have my vote.
Seeing as Ocean Gate knock off at about 4.30 you must be VTS then and therefore not really in the know.
I think ABP would get more support if someone much higher than Doug Morrison such as Chris Clark or Peter Jones said outright that they were not selling off port estate once Dibden went up. Unless again you are Doug Morrison and if so, why not make a public statement and at the same time a lot of friends?
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 5:46pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Too true southy any ideas what you'll be doing in 40 years time??
Yeah wish I had a crystal ball lol!!
Some people are unbelievable!
Too true southy any ideas what you'll be doing in 40 years time??
Yeah wish I had a crystal ball lol!!
Some people are unbelievable!
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 5:48pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote:
Too true southy any ideas what you'll be doing in 40 years time?? Yeah wish I had a crystal ball lol!! Some people are unbelievable![/quote] If this is true why are ABP saying that Dibden is for the long term benefit of the UK. If you can't see the reasoning on this then you're probably not in the know and a poor representative of your company.
ABP Employee wrote:
Too true southy any ideas what you'll be doing in 40 years time?? Yeah wish I had a crystal ball lol!! Some people are unbelievable!
If this is true why are ABP saying that Dibden is for the long term benefit of the UK. If you can't see the reasoning on this then you're probably not in the know and a poor representative of your company.
Posted by: Simmo, Southampton on 5:50pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Hahaha, Ed has just pwned ABP Employee!
Get in there big fella!!
LMAFO
Hahaha, Ed has just pwned ABP Employee!
Get in there big fella!!
LMAFO
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 5:51pm Thu 7 Aug 08
well in about 40 years time i would say there be no container port in southampton,there be just 2 main ones one on the east coast and one on the west coast.containers that are not for the uk will be run from one coast to the other side.
well in about 40 years time i would say there be no container port in southampton,there be just 2 main ones one on the east coast and one on the west coast.containers that are not for the uk will be run from one coast to the other side.
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 5:52pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Well Ed whatever biz is it is of yours am holiday at the mo sorry to disappoint.
Frankly, it is ABP's business what they do with their land within the constraints placed on them by legislation.
If it was your business and somebody came along demanding guarantees of what you were going to do in 40 years time you would have one answer and one answer only and that is you are not in a position to give such guarantees!!
Get a reality check!!!
Well Ed whatever biz is it is of yours am holiday at the mo sorry to disappoint.
Frankly, it is ABP's business what they do with their land within the constraints placed on them by legislation.
If it was your business and somebody came along demanding guarantees of what you were going to do in 40 years time you would have one answer and one answer only and that is you are not in a position to give such guarantees!!
Get a reality check!!!
Posted by: debit the left side, at my calculator on 5:54pm Thu 7 Aug 08
I used to work as an external auditor for ABP. Can categorically say that I never saw any evidence of ABP wanting to sell Port Land in the 10 yrs I was doing the job. They make far more money by maximsing revenue from existing port facilities. And they do the job very well. The sale of Ocean Village in the 1980's was somewhat of a red herring. At that time the port was striven by industrial disputes and was losing money big style. ABP had just taken over from the old nationalised BTDB and the sale of land for non port related activity (eg marinas) was considered the only way to make money especially as the Ocean Village area had shallow berths and ships were getting bigger. In fact there were plans to extend non port activity into Empress Dock and 101/2 berths. With the benefit of hindsight ABP made the big mistake of selling off a corner of Dibden Bay for the creation of Hythe Marina. Maggie Thatchers reform of the Dock Labour Act transformed UK ports thereby enabling the old NDLB ports to
actually provide a service and make money. Since then all the major UK ports, especially Soton, have beeen able to compete successfully by offering good sevice and strike free records.
Consider that any development at Dibden Bay will cost between £500m to £1b so this will be a significant leap of faith by ABP owners.
I have to say that, in todays economic climate, any investment of this magnitude would be welcomed with open arms in most areas of the country. It seems surprising to me that some people in this area are not even prepared to enter into a reasonable dialogue to consider the possible benefits.Very strange!!
I used to work as an external auditor for ABP. Can categorically say that I never saw any evidence of ABP wanting to sell Port Land in the 10 yrs I was doing the job. They make far more money by maximsing revenue from existing port facilities. And they do the job very well. The sale of Ocean Village in the 1980's was somewhat of a red herring. At that time the port was striven by industrial disputes and was losing money big style. ABP had just taken over from the old nationalised BTDB and the sale of land for non port related activity (eg marinas) was considered the only way to make money especially as the Ocean Village area had shallow berths and ships were getting bigger. In fact there were plans to extend non port activity into Empress Dock and 101/2 berths. With the benefit of hindsight ABP made the big mistake of selling off a corner of Dibden Bay for the creation of Hythe Marina. Maggie Thatchers reform of the Dock Labour Act transformed UK ports thereby enabling the old NDLB ports to
actually provide a service and make money. Since then all the major UK ports, especially Soton, have beeen able to compete successfully by offering good sevice and strike free records.
Consider that any development at Dibden Bay will cost between £500m to £1b so this will be a significant leap of faith by ABP owners.
I have to say that, in todays economic climate, any investment of this magnitude would be welcomed with open arms in most areas of the country. It seems surprising to me that some people in this area are not even prepared to enter into a reasonable dialogue to consider the possible benefits.Very strange!!
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 6:03pm Thu 7 Aug 08
debit the left side, at my calculator intresting but you for got some thing else to,the selling off the lease to town quay,and where carryfast sheds use to be and that part of the dock wall.and the new owners blocking the right of way to the public slipway and public hard.the public hard has totaly gone its now a marina.and this happen in the early to mid 90's
debit the left side, at my calculator intresting but you for got some thing else to,the selling off the lease to town quay,and where carryfast sheds use to be and that part of the dock wall.and the new owners blocking the right of way to the public slipway and public hard.the public hard has totaly gone its now a marina.and this happen in the early to mid 90's
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 6:06pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote:
Well Ed whatever biz is it is of yours am holiday at the mo sorry to disappoint. Frankly, it is ABP's business what they do with their land within the constraints placed on them by legislation. If it was your business and somebody came along demanding guarantees of what you were going to do in 40 years time you would have one answer and one answer only and that is you are not in a position to give such guarantees!! Get a reality check!!![/quote] Well that narrows it down as to who you are and it is obvious you're not a management postion high enough to know the full intentions behind Dibden Bay. Ignore the issue of 40 years etc, I still want proof that there is no long term aim to sell off port estate for redevelopment after Dibden is built.
As an ABP employee you must have seen how other ports have shrunk. Look at Cardiff and Ipswich, they are more marinas and expensive flats than ports industry now. Good job there ABP.
Lets see some proof from the ABP board and not some spouting from someone not in a position to back up that proof such as you. I'm sure you do an important job in the docks but you're not in the right job to know absolutely everything. Like I said previously, I'm happy to see Dibden built if their intentions are clear and honest.
As for the auditor, the clue is in your first sentence, 'I use to work..'
Come on Doug, reassure the inhabitants of Southampton and make perfectly clear that not one cubic metre of port estate would be sold off once Dibden was built!
Daily Echo, why don't you ask him or the board of ABP???
ABP Employee wrote:
Well Ed whatever biz is it is of yours am holiday at the mo sorry to disappoint. Frankly, it is ABP's business what they do with their land within the constraints placed on them by legislation. If it was your business and somebody came along demanding guarantees of what you were going to do in 40 years time you would have one answer and one answer only and that is you are not in a position to give such guarantees!! Get a reality check!!!
Well that narrows it down as to who you are and it is obvious you're not a management postion high enough to know the full intentions behind Dibden Bay. Ignore the issue of 40 years etc, I still want proof that there is no long term aim to sell off port estate for redevelopment after Dibden is built.
As an ABP employee you must have seen how other ports have shrunk. Look at Cardiff and Ipswich, they are more marinas and expensive flats than ports industry now. Good job there ABP.
Lets see some proof from the ABP board and not some spouting from someone not in a position to back up that proof such as you. I'm sure you do an important job in the docks but you're not in the right job to know absolutely everything. Like I said previously, I'm happy to see Dibden built if their intentions are clear and honest.
As for the auditor, the clue is in your first sentence, 'I use to work..'
Come on Doug, reassure the inhabitants of Southampton and make perfectly clear that not one cubic metre of port estate would be sold off once Dibden was built!
Daily Echo, why don't you ask him or the board of ABP???
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 6:13pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ed m8 if you read the posts that have gone before and not just this post,you might get an idea what abp is up to.
ed m8 if you read the posts that have gone before and not just this post,you might get an idea what abp is up to.
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 6:16pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Southy,
You seem like a man in the know with a good knowledge of the history of the docks. Do you think they'll end up selling land off in the docks at the expense of Dibden?
Southy,
You seem like a man in the know with a good knowledge of the history of the docks. Do you think they'll end up selling land off in the docks at the expense of Dibden?
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 6:23pm Thu 7 Aug 08
i going to refer you to my fist post of the day and another one by wild bill.
i said "lol i find this funny,it could be just what ABP wants,has the land can be class has farm land with business intrest,they can ask more than the market value.look what ABP done to date sold up there intrest in the container port,and use it for the thames prodject,they know container ships will get much bigger.this might be the real reason why all the rumours just of late.they want to sell the land but they need to be able to dictate the price of the land.
andy remember what i said in a post a mth or so ago.
then wild bill said "Looks like NFC has walk right into that one."
this might answer your question
i going to refer you to my fist post of the day and another one by wild bill.
i said "lol i find this funny,it could be just what ABP wants,has the land can be class has farm land with business intrest,they can ask more than the market value.look what ABP done to date sold up there intrest in the container port,and use it for the thames prodject,they know container ships will get much bigger.this might be the real reason why all the rumours just of late.they want to sell the land but they need to be able to dictate the price of the land.
andy remember what i said in a post a mth or so ago.
then wild bill said "Looks like NFC has walk right into that one."
this might answer your question
Posted by: Dog, Southampton on 6:23pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Yep, you got me, we'll sell off Eastern docks to make more flats that go all the way around to Mayflower Park. Then we'll sell off the area at SCT and move them over to DB.
...and I would have got away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids and that big dog...
Yep, you got me, we'll sell off Eastern docks to make more flats that go all the way around to Mayflower Park. Then we'll sell off the area at SCT and move them over to DB.
...and I would have got away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids and that big dog...
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 6:23pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote:
I should also add that although I work for ABP I am not a company spokesman!!! All my comments are educated guesswork based on what I would do if I was part of the management!![/quote] Well Ed you will see I never claimed to know what the managements actual plans are, but I know enough about business (which it seems you do not!!) to know that nobody in ABP would be daft enough to give the kind of stupid guarantee's you are asking for, nor should they.
ABP as a business is rightly there to make the best return it can for it's owners.
In the long term the development of Dibden Bay is the best way of achieving this and will bring significant benefit's for the wider community in terms of additional employment.
ABP Employee wrote:
I should also add that although I work for ABP I am not a company spokesman!!! All my comments are educated guesswork based on what I would do if I was part of the management!!
Well Ed you will see I never claimed to know what the managements actual plans are, but I know enough about business (which it seems you do not!!) to know that nobody in ABP would be daft enough to give the kind of stupid guarantee's you are asking for, nor should they.
ABP as a business is rightly there to make the best return it can for it's owners.
In the long term the development of Dibden Bay is the best way of achieving this and will bring significant benefit's for the wider community in terms of additional employment.
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 6:30pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote: I should also add that although I work for ABP I am not a company spokesman!!! All my comments are educated guesswork based on what I would do if I was part of the management!![/quote] Well Ed you will see I never claimed to know what the managements actual plans are, but I know enough about business (which it seems you do not!!) to know that nobody in ABP would be daft enough to give the kind of stupid guarantee\'s you are asking for, nor should they. ABP as a business is rightly there to make the best return it can for it\'s owners. In the long term the development of Dibden Bay is the best way of achieving this and will bring significant benefit\'s for the wider community in terms of additional employment.[/quote] Hmmm, I know more about business than you're giving me credit for but hay ho...
It does sound that you blatantly believe the rhetoric thrown out by your PR department and never question anything. You're failing to see the bigger picture but I suspect that as an employee in either VTS or Ocean Gate you're not going to be in a position to see the bigger picture of how the docks fall into the big picture of UK trade and industry. Once again, I can see benefit if it was genuinely in the interests of the country however not at the expense to make a quick buck elsewhere by selling off port estate.
You do sound like the type of person who never questions anything that is presented to them. What are you, radar or accounts?
ABP Employee wrote:
ABP Employee wrote: I should also add that although I work for ABP I am not a company spokesman!!! All my comments are educated guesswork based on what I would do if I was part of the management!!
Well Ed you will see I never claimed to know what the managements actual plans are, but I know enough about business (which it seems you do not!!) to know that nobody in ABP would be daft enough to give the kind of stupid guarantee\'s you are asking for, nor should they. ABP as a business is rightly there to make the best return it can for it\'s owners. In the long term the development of Dibden Bay is the best way of achieving this and will bring significant benefit\'s for the wider community in terms of additional employment.
Hmmm, I know more about business than you're giving me credit for but hay ho...
It does sound that you blatantly believe the rhetoric thrown out by your PR department and never question anything. You're failing to see the bigger picture but I suspect that as an employee in either VTS or Ocean Gate you're not going to be in a position to see the bigger picture of how the docks fall into the big picture of UK trade and industry. Once again, I can see benefit if it was genuinely in the interests of the country however not at the expense to make a quick buck elsewhere by selling off port estate.
You do sound like the type of person who never questions anything that is presented to them. What are you, radar or accounts?
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 6:50pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ed m8 read my last post bud
ed m8 read my last post bud
Posted by: in the middle, on the fence on 6:57pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Ed,
Lets have some info about you. What do you do?
1.You have a go at ABP employee about ABP rhetoric then follow the anti's mantra about selling off port land without any proof.
2. You then ask Southy's opinion about the future. If you have ever read Southys regular postings you will know him to be a well meaning but confused old duffer
3. You take no notice of the external auditor.Note'externa
l' means employed by an outside body to sign off a company's accounts. Therefore not employed by ABP but, I would humbly suggest more aware than most as to their actual business activity/strategy.
4. Cardiff Docks is hampered by Locks which reduces size of ship able to enter. It was also built as a coal port and is additionally hampered by a surfeit of ports in S. Wales and competition from Bristol can only take relatively small ships at a time when ships are getting bigger (check with your mate Southy on this)
Likewise Ipswich is limited on ship size and has Felixstowe on its doorstep.
As for making a fast buck. You are obviously someone at the lower end of the food chain who does not understand the concept of the capitalistic society we all live in!!
Ed,
Lets have some info about you. What do you do?
1.You have a go at ABP employee about ABP rhetoric then follow the anti's mantra about selling off port land without any proof.
2. You then ask Southy's opinion about the future. If you have ever read Southys regular postings you will know him to be a well meaning but confused old duffer
3. You take no notice of the external auditor.Note'externa
l' means employed by an outside body to sign off a company's accounts. Therefore not employed by ABP but, I would humbly suggest more aware than most as to their actual business activity/strategy.
4. Cardiff Docks is hampered by Locks which reduces size of ship able to enter. It was also built as a coal port and is additionally hampered by a surfeit of ports in S. Wales and competition from Bristol can only take relatively small ships at a time when ships are getting bigger (check with your mate Southy on this)
Likewise Ipswich is limited on ship size and has Felixstowe on its doorstep.
As for making a fast buck. You are obviously someone at the lower end of the food chain who does not understand the concept of the capitalistic society we all live in!!
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 7:05pm Thu 7 Aug 08
lol thanx in the middle, on the fence on (2. You then ask Southy's opinion about the future. If you have ever read Southys regular postings you will know him to be a well meaning but confused old duffer)
i never confused been around along time yes and 90% on my life is base here in southampton.you can trace my family back over 1000 years in this aera, i seen personal with my own eyes what has happen in the last 50 years.
lol thanx in the middle, on the fence on (2. You then ask Southy's opinion about the future. If you have ever read Southys regular postings you will know him to be a well meaning but confused old duffer)
i never confused been around along time yes and 90% on my life is base here in southampton.you can trace my family back over 1000 years in this aera, i seen personal with my own eyes what has happen in the last 50 years.
Posted by: sotonian, southampton on 7:30pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]ABP Employee[/bold] wrote:
True enough Southy I expect all the Hythe marina nimby's have either been out on their yachts for the day, or up in London earning their fat city salaries, wait until they're back home and see all this somebody will have a heart attack lol![/quote] [bold]bold[/bold] no they are at Cowes
ABP Employee wrote:
True enough Southy I expect all the Hythe marina nimby's have either been out on their yachts for the day, or up in London earning their fat city salaries, wait until they're back home and see all this somebody will have a heart attack lol!
no they are at Cowes
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 7:33pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]in the middle[/bold] wrote:
Ed, Lets have some info about you. What do you do? 1.You have a go at ABP employee about ABP rhetoric then follow the anti's mantra about selling off port land without any proof. 2. You then ask Southy's opinion about the future. If you have ever read Southys regular postings you will know him to be a well meaning but confused old duffer 3. You take no notice of the external auditor.Note'externa l' means employed by an outside body to sign off a company's accounts. Therefore not employed by ABP but, I would humbly suggest more aware than most as to their actual business activity/strategy. 4. Cardiff Docks is hampered by Locks which reduces size of ship able to enter. It was also built as a coal port and is additionally hampered by a surfeit of ports in S. Wales and competition from Bristol can only take relatively small ships at a time when ships are getting bigger (check with your mate Southy on this) Likewise Ipswich is limited on ship size and has Felixstowe on its doorstep. As for making a fast buck. You are obviously someone at the lower end of the food chain who does not understand the concept of the capitalistic society we all live in!![/quote] Work within the shipping agency, BSc business degree, London, Rotterdam and also Southampton.
I would be offended by your remarks if I was Southy.
The point I am making is that it seems that ABP want to build Dibden to redevelop existing port infrastructure. Why not just manage the existing estate better then?
The auditor was dismissed because he used to work for them but he doesn't now so how can he know their current train of thought.
I fully understand capitalistic ventures but also understand morals and scruples none of which, at face value, ABP have until they declare they won't sell off the existing port.
In principle I support Dibden.
in the middle wrote:
Ed, Lets have some info about you. What do you do? 1.You have a go at ABP employee about ABP rhetoric then follow the anti's mantra about selling off port land without any proof. 2. You then ask Southy's opinion about the future. If you have ever read Southys regular postings you will know him to be a well meaning but confused old duffer 3. You take no notice of the external auditor.Note'externa l' means employed by an outside body to sign off a company's accounts. Therefore not employed by ABP but, I would humbly suggest more aware than most as to their actual business activity/strategy. 4. Cardiff Docks is hampered by Locks which reduces size of ship able to enter. It was also built as a coal port and is additionally hampered by a surfeit of ports in S. Wales and competition from Bristol can only take relatively small ships at a time when ships are getting bigger (check with your mate Southy on this) Likewise Ipswich is limited on ship size and has Felixstowe on its doorstep. As for making a fast buck. You are obviously someone at the lower end of the food chain who does not understand the concept of the capitalistic society we all live in!!
Work within the shipping agency, BSc business degree, London, Rotterdam and also Southampton.
I would be offended by your remarks if I was Southy.
The point I am making is that it seems that ABP want to build Dibden to redevelop existing port infrastructure. Why not just manage the existing estate better then?
The auditor was dismissed because he used to work for them but he doesn't now so how can he know their current train of thought.
I fully understand capitalistic ventures but also understand morals and scruples none of which, at face value, ABP have until they declare they won't sell off the existing port.
In principle I support Dibden.
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 7:53pm Thu 7 Aug 08
ed i would neber be offended by there remarks only because i probley know more than most that get on here.to many read books and look at the wilky site and that has gospel,the wilky site info has to many errors,and to many of those so called historians claim southampton dock came about in the 1843 or there abouts,but this not true first time southampton docks came compleatly commerical docks dates back to henry viii when he removed the men of war ships down to portmouth,also a lot of the book only give basic facts and not all the facts.
ed i would neber be offended by there remarks only because i probley know more than most that get on here.to many read books and look at the wilky site and that has gospel,the wilky site info has to many errors,and to many of those so called historians claim southampton dock came about in the 1843 or there abouts,but this not true first time southampton docks came compleatly commerical docks dates back to henry viii when he removed the men of war ships down to portmouth,also a lot of the book only give basic facts and not all the facts.
Posted by: northy, baddesley on 8:15pm Thu 7 Aug 08
This is the second/third? time Southy has put forward the notion that the commercial docks date back to Tudor times then tells us these were naval ships which decamped to Portsmouth!!!
The truth, of course, is that Southampton has been a trading port since Roman times when ships tied up in the mud. Clausentum at Bitterne on the Itchen being a prime example. Southy will also remember in his youth ships tying up at Redbridge.
Up until 1838 ships continued to lay alongside the river banks altho rudimentary quays were built by Platform Road and in front of what eventually became Town Quay.
The first 'proper' commercial docks were opened in 1840 ..'to joyous celebration'.. (no nimbys around at the time)and continued to expand in the E Dks to 1910 before W Dks was built 1920's to 1930's and the container port 1970's/1980's.
Note all the port land from 1840 was on reclaimed land (as would be Dibden Bay) and at every juncture the population snd prosperity of Soton increased.
It is tiring having to regularly correct Southy's factual errors but sure as eggs is eggs he will come back with some more, god bless him.
Thing is he knows quite a lot of outline stuff (which I give him great credit for)but his factual info is often completely off track
This is the second/third? time Southy has put forward the notion that the commercial docks date back to Tudor times then tells us these were naval ships which decamped to Portsmouth!!!
The truth, of course, is that Southampton has been a trading port since Roman times when ships tied up in the mud. Clausentum at Bitterne on the Itchen being a prime example. Southy will also remember in his youth ships tying up at Redbridge.
Up until 1838 ships continued to lay alongside the river banks altho rudimentary quays were built by Platform Road and in front of what eventually became Town Quay.
The first 'proper' commercial docks were opened in 1840 ..'to joyous celebration'.. (no nimbys around at the time)and continued to expand in the E Dks to 1910 before W Dks was built 1920's to 1930's and the container port 1970's/1980's.
Note all the port land from 1840 was on reclaimed land (as would be Dibden Bay) and at every juncture the population snd prosperity of Soton increased.
It is tiring having to regularly correct Southy's factual errors but sure as eggs is eggs he will come back with some more, god bless him.
Thing is he knows quite a lot of outline stuff (which I give him great credit for)but his factual info is often completely off track
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southampton on 8:37pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Ed for somebody with a business degree and supposedly so much experience you have some truly weird ideas about how to conduct business lol!
You say you're in favour of Dibden but all your bs just makes you sound like a typical nimby prat.
I work for them but i'm no ABP stooge!
Their last attempt to bring about Dibden Bay was poorly thought out bearing in mind that half the port estate in the western docks at the time was given over to outside interests i.e Bacardi, STC Comms, Royal Mail etc and their proposals for transport infrastructure did not go anywhere near far enough to meet the requirements.
However, to their credit the company have since learned some very expensive mistakes (i.e the 50 odd million they spent on the proposal/enquiry etc) and the western dock estate has been almost totally cleared of parties not related to the marine industry, and if you know so much about the docks being an agent you will acknowledge that every available inch of the port estate is being utilised for container, car or general cargo storage and is basically now struggling day to day in order to find enough storage for the cargo they already have let alone future requirements!!!
If they were in any doubt before they are in no doubt now that any future development has to have a justifiable business case and the infrastucture proposals will have to pass scrutiny.
They will not spend another 50 million without being 99.9% certain that they will get their proposal through.
What I said right at the start is true, Dibden Bay development WILL happen, you can debate all you like about when, but it is WHEN, not IF!!!!!
Ed for somebody with a business degree and supposedly so much experience you have some truly weird ideas about how to conduct business lol!
You say you're in favour of Dibden but all your bs just makes you sound like a typical nimby prat.
I work for them but i'm no ABP stooge!
Their last attempt to bring about Dibden Bay was poorly thought out bearing in mind that half the port estate in the western docks at the time was given over to outside interests i.e Bacardi, STC Comms, Royal Mail etc and their proposals for transport infrastructure did not go anywhere near far enough to meet the requirements.
However, to their credit the company have since learned some very expensive mistakes (i.e the 50 odd million they spent on the proposal/enquiry etc) and the western dock estate has been almost totally cleared of parties not related to the marine industry, and if you know so much about the docks being an agent you will acknowledge that every available inch of the port estate is being utilised for container, car or general cargo storage and is basically now struggling day to day in order to find enough storage for the cargo they already have let alone future requirements!!!
If they were in any doubt before they are in no doubt now that any future development has to have a justifiable business case and the infrastucture proposals will have to pass scrutiny.
They will not spend another 50 million without being 99.9% certain that they will get their proposal through.
What I said right at the start is true, Dibden Bay development WILL happen, you can debate all you like about when, but it is WHEN, not IF!!!!!
Posted by: southy, redbridge on 8:55pm Thu 7 Aug 08
before henry viii moved the men-of-war down to portmouth it was mix, but the true date lays back to when southampton merchantmen 24 familys in all was granted bough rights on commercial docks that dates back to one of the henrys,and the 1800's was the new docks being built,there was jettys and piers along plateform road,there was also a roman port and fort at eling on the south side of the river rum.
before henry viii moved the men-of-war down to portmouth it was mix, but the true date lays back to when southampton merchantmen 24 familys in all was granted bough rights on commercial docks that dates back to one of the henrys,and the 1800's was the new docks being built,there was jettys and piers along plateform road,there was also a roman port and fort at eling on the south side of the river rum.
Posted by: Maureen (Mickey's Missus), Tatchbury on 8:55pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Its encouraging to see much more open minded debate this time round. It's clear from the threads that the (relatively) silent majority of people will not let parochial Nimbyism hijack the region's economic prosperity for a second time. I hope that the Echo editor reads some of these threads and realises that his editorial policy of backing the Nimby cause will lose readership. Even the antis such as Ed are at least willing to debate and be persuaded - We've come a long way. Many Nimbies are so self obsessed they assume anyone supporting the Port must be some kind of "fat cat shareholder". They can't appreciate that some of us only want to safeguard our kids futures. I've got a teenage son at Testwood who wants to be an engineer. Please don't let the ignorance and selfish self interest of an older generation take his career prospects away.
Its encouraging to see much more open minded debate this time round. It's clear from the threads that the (relatively) silent majority of people will not let parochial Nimbyism hijack the region's economic prosperity for a second time. I hope that the Echo editor reads some of these threads and realises that his editorial policy of backing the Nimby cause will lose readership. Even the antis such as Ed are at least willing to debate and be persuaded - We've come a long way. Many Nimbies are so self obsessed they assume anyone supporting the Port must be some kind of "fat cat shareholder". They can't appreciate that some of us only want to safeguard our kids futures. I've got a teenage son at Testwood who wants to be an engineer. Please don't let the ignorance and selfish self interest of an older generation take his career prospects away.
Posted by: Colin, Shirley on 9:05pm Thu 7 Aug 08
All,
Our city's economy is quite heavly based around dock activities and Southampton university, it is a simple fact that we need these businesses to thrive if our city is to thrive. We need high technology, well paid jobs in these areas to keep the next generation from leaving for more progressive areas, the Dibden bay development project is an example of the type of initiative needed to keep our city progressive, and to generate the income we need for the city. If this project could come to fruition it would make Southampton one of the foremost international container ports in northern Europe, international shipping is a massive growth area and hugely financed globaly, we need to be part of this global expansion not sitting on the sidelines watching it happen!
Regards,
C
(Shirley resident)
All,
Our city's economy is quite heavly based around dock activities and Southampton university, it is a simple fact that we need these businesses to thrive if our city is to thrive. We need high technology, well paid jobs in these areas to keep the next generation from leaving for more progressive areas, the Dibden bay development project is an example of the type of initiative needed to keep our city progressive, and to generate the income we need for the city. If this project could come to fruition it would make Southampton one of the foremost international container ports in northern Europe, international shipping is a massive growth area and hugely financed globaly, we need to be part of this global expansion not sitting on the sidelines watching it happen!
Regards,
C
(Shirley resident)
Posted by: wild bill, redbridge on 9:05pm Thu 7 Aug 08
Northy The diffrence between you and southy,Is you read books and treat that is all the facts,Where's has Southy is a mix plus the added advantage of family history.My dad was a stevedore,So even I know a lot about the docks I have work in the docks my self from time to time.
Northy The diffrence between you and southy,Is you read books and treat that is all the facts,Where's has Southy is a mix plus the added advantage of family history.My dad was a stevedore,So even I know a lot about the docks I have work in the docks my self from time to time.
Posted by: Ed, Southampton on 10:06pm Thu 7 Aug 08
For the record, I'm not a NIMBY and live nowhere near Dibden. Actually I live very close to the docks. I'm not an anti as well, I want Dibden to happen if it's what is needed but I don't want it to happen if all ABP are going to do is sell off port estate after! What does the board of ABP or their property department say? Their silence is golden.
For the record, I'm not a NIMBY and live nowhere near Dibden. Actually I live very close to the docks. I'm not an anti as well, I want Dibden to happen if it's what is needed but I don't want it to happen if all ABP are going to do is sell off port estate after! What does the board of ABP or their property department say? Their silence is golden.
Posted by: northy, baddesley on 10:13pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]wild bill[/bold] wrote:
Northy The diffrence between you and southy,Is you read books and treat that is all the facts,Where's has Southy is a mix plus the added advantage of family history.My dad was a stevedore,So even I know a lot about the docks I have work in the docks my self from time to time.[/quote] Actually i have been involved in the marine industry for 48 years starting as a mere docks messenger and working my way up the chain, including many difficult years dealing with union problems on the quayside.My father, grandfather and relatives have worked in the port.
I have also worked as a consultant for several organisations involved in port related activity in various parts of the world.
In recent years I have researched the history of Soton port from Echo archives, Library etc and visited Alistair Arnott at Soton City Archives who,along with a guy by the name of Bert Moody, knows more about the FACTUAL history of Soton and its port than you would ever understand.
As I have said before Southy has some limited factual information.I dont want to be unduly disrespectful to the gentleman but some of his info is frankly laughable.
wild bill wrote:
Northy The diffrence between you and southy,Is you read books and treat that is all the facts,Where's has Southy is a mix plus the added advantage of family history.My dad was a stevedore,So even I know a lot about the docks I have work in the docks my self from time to time.
Actually i have been involved in the marine industry for 48 years starting as a mere docks messenger and working my way up the chain, including many difficult years dealing with union problems on the quayside.My father, grandfather and relatives have worked in the port.
I have also worked as a consultant for several organisations involved in port related activity in various parts of the world.
In recent years I have researched the history of Soton port from Echo archives, Library etc and visited Alistair Arnott at Soton City Archives who,along with a guy by the name of Bert Moody, knows more about the FACTUAL history of Soton and its port than you would ever understand.
As I have said before Southy has some limited factual information.I dont want to be unduly disrespectful to the gentleman but some of his info is frankly laughable.
Posted by: ABP Employee, Southsmpton on 10:19pm Thu 7 Aug 08
They won't say anything until they are good and ready Ed they have no need to!
All anybody can do is judge them on their actions in Southampton since the Dibden Bay enquiry and the record is one of learning from past mistakes as I said previously and you have'nt disputed that so far.
They won't say anything until they are good and ready Ed they have no need to!
All anybody can do is judge them on their actions in Southampton since the Dibden Bay enquiry and the record is one of learning from past mistakes as I said previously and you have'nt disputed that so far.
Posted by: nothy, baddesley on 10:37pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Ed[/bold] wrote:
For the record, I'm not a NIMBY and live nowhere near Dibden. Actually I live very close to the docks. I'm not an anti as well, I want Dibden to happen if it's what is needed but I don't want it to happen if all ABP are going to do is sell off port estate after! What does the board of ABP or their property department say? Their silence is golden.[/quote] Ed
You say earlier you have a Bsc so you would be used to relying on factual research rather than
mere supposition. How on earth can you second guess ABP's motives? My guess is that Doug Morrison made a personal comment in front of sympathetic audience which was put forward as banner headlines by the Echo.
You will note thst ABP Press Dept have said thst there are no plans for current development at ABP.
ABP has a deal with Dubai ports for another 10 yrs or so and no doubt will be discussing an extension soon to pay for improvements/expansi
on which will include the development of
201/2 berths for larger ships (such as Emma Maersk class)
Until all this is boxed off and Dubai Ports determine how they will develop Thames Gateway (Shellhaven) and, as I understand it, many of the major container lines have reservations about accessing the Thames
facility from a marine perspective, then Dibden Bay will remain as a possibility, no more than this. Meanwhile ABP will quite naturally fight tooth and nail to keep the area earmarked for port development.
Ed wrote:
For the record, I'm not a NIMBY and live nowhere near Dibden. Actually I live very close to the docks. I'm not an anti as well, I want Dibden to happen if it's what is needed but I don't want it to happen if all ABP are going to do is sell off port estate after! What does the board of ABP or their property department say? Their silence is golden.
Ed
You say earlier you have a Bsc so you would be used to relying on factual research rather than
mere supposition. How on earth can you second guess ABP's motives? My guess is that Doug Morrison made a personal comment in front of sympathetic audience which was put forward as banner headlines by the Echo.
You will note thst ABP Press Dept have said thst there are no plans for current development at ABP.
ABP has a deal with Dubai ports for another 10 yrs or so and no doubt will be discussing an extension soon to pay for improvements/expansi
on which will i
