Today's most viewed
How will we put a brake on bike deaths?
 |
| Channon Kevern |
IT was a weekend of tragedies that shook two Hampshire communities to the core. In just 48 hours, three people - all under 30 - had died in two separate crashes on the county's roads. On Saturday in the New Forest, 11-year-old Channon Kevern and her stepdad Terry Stubbs, 29, died when the motorcycle they were riding collided with a car on the A326.
A day later it became clear that 19-year-old Nicholas Hobbs had become the next victim. He was killed after his Suzuki collided with a vehicle in Warsash.
The circumstances surrounding the August bank holiday weekend fatalities are still under investigation.
But during the outpouring of grief in the days that followed, the debate over motorbike safety inevitably began to resurface.
So far this year, according to Hampshire police, there have been 15 motorcylce-related deaths in Hampshire and the Isle of Wight.
Last year, 18 motorcyclists were lost to fatal crashes across the two counties.
That number has nearly been reached already and we are only in August.
Figures compiled by the road safety group Brake point to a frightening reality about life on the road for riders.
Members say bikers make up only about one per cent of traffic but account for 18 per cent of deaths and 18 per cent of serious injuries on Britain's roads.
Many of us have experienced the chilling moment when traffic grinds to a halt up ahead before the flashing blue lights of the emergency services rush towards the accident spot.
It is a scenario that has become all too familiar - but it is not a problem which is being ignored.
Hampshire police have launched a number of initiatives in the past few months in a bid to lower casualties and increase awareness of road safety.
One of those was the force-led Bike Safe advanced motorcycle course, which runs across Hampshire.
But despite endless efforts to drive the message home, Hampshire Constabulary Bike Safe coordinator PC Mick Gear said this bank holiday weekend had been one of the worst he could remember.
"I have never seen anything quite as bad as this," he said. "The collisions are all still under investigation. But we are just trying to get the message out to motorcyclists that they are not invincible."
Just over a month ago, when the grim tally of motorbike crash deaths had reached 11, police issued a desperate safety plea.
At the time, PC Gear said: "The high number of fatalities this year comes despite the police regularly engaging with riders at bike meets across Hampshire and continuing to promote safe riding through attendance at public events across the two counties and marketing of our Bike Safe advanced rider workshops."
He added that car driver awareness was just as important as the need for motorcyclists to take more care on the roads.
And that was a message echoed by The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA).
Their spokesman Jo Stagg said: "Motorcyclists remain more vulnerable to serious injury than other road users.
"We don't advise people to stop using bikes, we would recommend to motorcyclists - as we would to car drivers - to take refresher courses because skills can change over time and so can road conditions. It's important people keep up to date.
"Motorcyclists have to rely on their experience to keep them safe on the road because they don't have safety features like airbags.
"We also need car drivers to be aware that there are motorcyclists on the road and they need to be as vigilant for motorcyclists as they need to be for other vulnerable road users."
THE tragic death of 11-year-old Channon Kevern also raised questions over whether age limits should be introduced for pillion passengers.
Cadland Primary School pupil Channon was on the back of a bike being driven by her stepdad Terry Stubbs when the pair died following a collision.
However, the AA confirmed that the number of deaths of under-16 motorbike passengers was low.
And in 2006 - the latest year for which figures are available - there were no such deaths recorded in Britain.
A spokesman for RoSPA confirmed that no legislation was in place to limit the age of youngsters riding as passengers.
9:46am Sunday 31st August 2008
Print 
Email this 
CommentPosted by: Dr Alimantadod on 10:18am Sun 31 Aug 08
Not trying to start a fight but I think a law should be passed that doesn't allow passengers on bikes. Motorbikes are too dangerous as they are, let alone with someone sitting on the back.
All fatalies are tragic but one death is better than two
Not trying to start a fight but I think a law should be passed that doesn't allow passengers on bikes. Motorbikes are too dangerous as they are, let alone with someone sitting on the back.
All fatalies are tragic but one death is better than two
Posted by: mary hinge, southampton on 10:27am Sun 31 Aug 08
Thought that out did'nt you, not?
So one gets killed rather than two? bikes are dangerous because people don't always spot them, they appear between traffic and also in some incidents they spped.
most bikers except that they have to be much more aware than a car driver, I want know sympathy if i am knocked off my bike unless its the result of some car driver making a ill judged move in front of me.
biking is a high risk transport but beating the endless traffic jams and shear pleasure makes it worth it. I do believe all bikes should have headlights on but if idiots are going to do U turns in front of you even this won't help!
Thought that out did'nt you, not?
So one gets killed rather than two? bikes are dangerous because people don't always spot them, they appear between traffic and also in some incidents they spped.
most bikers except that they have to be much more aware than a car driver, I want know sympathy if i am knocked off my bike unless its the result of some car driver making a ill judged move in front of me.
biking is a high risk transport but beating the endless traffic jams and shear pleasure makes it worth it. I do believe all bikes should have headlights on but if idiots are going to do U turns in front of you even this won't help!
Posted by: Car Driver, On the road on 10:45am Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Dr Alimantadod[/bold] wrote:
Not trying to start a fight but I think a law should be passed that doesn't allow passengers on bikes. Motorbikes are too dangerous as they are, let alone with someone sitting on the back.
All fatalies are tragic but one death is better than two
[/quote] Then drivers of cars then should be banned from carrying passengers.
Can not be one rule for one and not the other
Dr Alimantadod wrote:
Not trying to start a fight but I think a law should be passed that doesn't allow passengers on bikes. Motorbikes are too dangerous as they are, let alone with someone sitting on the back.
All fatalies are tragic but one death is better than two
Then drivers of cars then should be banned from carrying passengers.
Can not be one rule for one and not the other
Posted by: Kat Bike Rider on 11:03am Sun 31 Aug 08
I would like to ask, why does everyone seem to blame motorcyclists??
I was hit whilst waiting in traffic, because the driver didnt see me - The traffic had stopped, my break lights were on, as were the car in front!
I wasnt weaving, over taking or speeding, yet everyone automatically assumed that the accident was caused by me.
Luckly I wasnt forced into the 40mph traffic on the otherside of the road, which would have killed me. Their excuse a parent had just died! First thing that comes in to my mind - Why are you driving!
PLEASE, can all CAR drivers look out for bikes!Think about what your doing, we should all have refresher courses, not just bikers.
Too many people driver on auto pilot!!!
I would like to ask, why does everyone seem to blame motorcyclists??
I was hit whilst waiting in traffic, because the driver didnt see me - The traffic had stopped, my break lights were on, as were the car in front!
I wasnt weaving, over taking or speeding, yet everyone automatically assumed that the accident was caused by me.
Luckly I wasnt forced into the 40mph traffic on the otherside of the road, which would have killed me. Their excuse a parent had just died! First thing that comes in to my mind - Why are you driving!
PLEASE, can all CAR drivers look out for bikes!Think about what your doing, we should all have refresher courses, not just bikers.
Too many people driver on auto pilot!!!
Posted by: supersaint, winchester on 11:13am Sun 31 Aug 08
i agree with kat bike rider my husband and myself lost a friend last year on year his bike and it was not his fault there are a few that ride recklessly but dont put them all into the same pot there are a lot of bad car drivers out there too.
i agree with kat bike rider my husband and myself lost a friend last year on year his bike and it was not his fault there are a few that ride recklessly but dont put them all into the same pot there are a lot of bad car drivers out there too.
Posted by: lj, southampton on 11:42am Sun 31 Aug 08
TAKE LONGER TO LOOK FOR BIKES!
TAKE LONGER TO LOOK FOR BIKES!
Posted by: Stirling on 11:56am Sun 31 Aug 08
From the illiterate postings above perhaps better driver education would help
From the illiterate postings above perhaps better driver education would help
Posted by: George on 12:17pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote]I would like to ask, why does everyone seem to blame motorcyclists??
[/quote]
Because they don't understand bikes. They assume, for one thing, that bikers have the same level of awareness as car drivers. The reality, as any biker will tell you, is that bikers are far more aware of their surroundings. Far less distractions on a bike, for one thing, and you're more exposed. You just become more aware, simple as that. Someone's going to disagree with me on that, and I bet they've never ridden a bike.
They assume that "weaving" through traffic is dangerous. Most bikers don't actually do it, though. I agree that passing cars on the nearside is a stupid, dangerous thing to do, but I hardly ever see anyone do it. Mostly mopeds. Passing cars on the offside , pulling in again, pulling out, to move through traffic, is not a problem at all IMHO. Car drivers seem to find it galling because someone is making progress whilst they are not. Why not just move aside for the bike? I do. It doesn't make any difference to my journey. The list of assumptions goes on
Most of the "blame the bikers" attitude comes from the historical image of bikers as violent thugs. It's ingrained in people's subconscious. Blame The Rocky Horror Picture Show's Brad: "Yep, life's pretty cheap to that type, Janet"
I would like to ask, why does everyone seem to blame motorcyclists??
Because they don't understand bikes. They assume, for one thing, that bikers have the same level of awareness as car drivers. The reality, as any biker will tell you, is that bikers are far more aware of their surroundings. Far less distractions on a bike, for one thing, and you're more exposed. You just become more aware, simple as that. Someone's going to disagree with me on that, and I bet they've never ridden a bike.
They assume that "weaving" through traffic is dangerous. Most bikers don't actually do it, though. I agree that passing cars on the nearside is a stupid, dangerous thing to do, but I hardly ever see anyone do it. Mostly mopeds. Passing cars on the offside , pulling in again, pulling out, to move through traffic, is not a problem at all IMHO. Car drivers seem to find it galling because someone is making progress whilst they are not. Why not just move aside for the bike? I do. It doesn't make any difference to my journey. The list of assumptions goes on
Most of the "blame the bikers" attitude comes from the historical image of bikers as violent thugs. It's ingrained in people's subconscious. Blame The Rocky Horror Picture Show's Brad: "Yep, life's pretty cheap to that type, Janet"
Posted by: clair, Southampton on 12:21pm Sun 31 Aug 08
My dad was killed journeying from Soton to another Spitfire factory and as they say 'friendly fire'. Army lorry killed motor cyclist'. It was just another fatal accident - but it left a widow of 36 and two kids and a lifetime of degradation. My dad left a legacy for our kids to do their best.
Have it in mind a bike death leaves a devastating future for the family. May I say -whatever type of accident it leaves such sadness and a uphill struggle to survive this catastrophic dessimation of a small family - think before you do something mindless.
clair
My dad was killed journeying from Soton to another Spitfire factory and as they say 'friendly fire'. Army lorry killed motor cyclist'. It was just another fatal accident - but it left a widow of 36 and two kids and a lifetime of degradation. My dad left a legacy for our kids to do their best.
Have it in mind a bike death leaves a devastating future for the family. May I say -whatever type of accident it leaves such sadness and a uphill struggle to survive this catastrophic dessimation of a small family - think before you do something mindless.
clair
Posted by: George on 12:23pm Sun 31 Aug 08
What can be done? Better education all round. Bikers need to keep learning. Other road users need to be better aware of bikes, and need to drop this inherent contempt of the motorcycling community that so many people seem to have. For anyone who's thinking "why should I have to be on the lookout for bikes?" ask "Why should every living creature in most of the inhabited world be on the lookout for cars?". Everyone needs to be more accommodating of one another
What can be done? Better education all round. Bikers need to keep learning. Other road users need to be better aware of bikes, and need to drop this inherent contempt of the motorcycling community that so many people seem to have. For anyone who's thinking "why should I have to be on the lookout for bikes?" ask "Why should every living creature in most of the inhabited world be on the lookout for cars?". Everyone needs to be more accommodating of one another
Posted by: a326 driver, Hythe on 12:23pm Sun 31 Aug 08
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !!
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !!
Posted by: gorf, soton on 12:24pm Sun 31 Aug 08
they are a drain on the NHS's resources
ban them....or make them pay a higher tax
(they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!)
every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly
bored
they are a drain on the NHS's resources
ban them....or make them pay a higher tax
(they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!)
every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly
bored
Posted by: alastairw, cheshire on 12:35pm Sun 31 Aug 08
One of the hidden facts re accident stats is that more riders are being killed in incidents involving, untaxed, stolen or otherwise illegal machines/vehicles, or drunk/drugged or non licensed drivers. The Police often report an off-road motocycle/scooter fatality as a `road' accident - why?
The accidents mentioned here do not fall into that category but a casual google search reveals several `illegal driver/rider' crashes in recent months across the UK.
This rise in `illegal' accidents, alongside better car design re impact absorbption, are the main reasons why car accident fatalities are falling, whilst two wheeler figures remain around 650 per year.
No laws will prevent drivers of 1 ton cars killing bikers in a collision. The fact that few drivers are jailed for causing death on the roads, even when driving illegally, simply makes it more dangerous on UK roads for two-wheeler riders.
There is an unspoken arrogance amongst thousands of drivers that `you will go to hospital, not me mate' when making sudden turns, running red lights, lane changes etc when bikes are visible and in their way. They see us, but really don't care if they hit us. There are few serious consequences if the worst happens for the car driver.
As regards an age limit on pillions, there are regulations on feet touching the footpegs, so very young children are effectively barred from travelling most machines.
My own kids will ride bikes, do abseiling, kayaking or other potentially dangerous activities in their life - if we want a generation of fat kids addicted to computers and scared of stepping out of their `bubble' of safety, then yes, let's ban kids from doing anything risky.
There is no real debate on road safety in the UK, because real solutions cost time, training and Police manpower to bring about a true change in driver behaviour. It's easier just to pass more useless laws.
alastairw
One of the hidden facts re accident stats is that more riders are being killed in incidents involving, untaxed, stolen or otherwise illegal machines/vehicles, or drunk/drugged or non licensed drivers. The Police often report an off-road motocycle/scooter fatality as a `road' accident - why?
The accidents mentioned here do not fall into that category but a casual google search reveals several `illegal driver/rider' crashes in recent months across the UK.
This rise in `illegal' accidents, alongside better car design re impact absorbption, are the main reasons why car accident fatalities are falling, whilst two wheeler figures remain around 650 per year.
No laws will prevent drivers of 1 ton cars killing bikers in a collision. The fact that few drivers are jailed for causing death on the roads, even when driving illegally, simply makes it more dangerous on UK roads for two-wheeler riders.
There is an unspoken arrogance amongst thousands of drivers that `you will go to hospital, not me mate' when making sudden turns, running red lights, lane changes etc when bikes are visible and in their way. They see us, but really don't care if they hit us. There are few serious consequences if the worst happens for the car driver.
As regards an age limit on pillions, there are regulations on feet touching the footpegs, so very young children are effectively barred from travelling most machines.
My own kids will ride bikes, do abseiling, kayaking or other potentially dangerous activities in their life - if we want a generation of fat kids addicted to computers and scared of stepping out of their `bubble' of safety, then yes, let's ban kids from doing anything risky.
There is no real debate on road safety in the UK, because real solutions cost time, training and Police manpower to bring about a true change in driver behaviour. It's easier just to pass more useless laws.
alastairw
Posted by: kebab man, on yer bike on 12:36pm Sun 31 Aug 08
gorf you have a real problem mate
gorf you have a real problem mate
Posted by: JB Soton, Gosport on 12:37pm Sun 31 Aug 08
It can all be summed up in two words..Think Bike!
It can all be summed up in two words..Think Bike!
Posted by: Dr Alimantado on 12:38pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Car Driver[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Dr Alimantadod[/bold] wrote: Not trying to start a fight but I think a law should be passed that doesn't allow passengers on bikes. Motorbikes are too dangerous as they are, let alone with someone sitting on the back. All fatalies are tragic but one death is better than two [/quote] Then drivers of cars then should be banned from carrying passengers. Can not be one rule for one and not the other[/quote] I think the passenger on a bike is slightly more exposed to danger than a passenger in a car.
Just trying to think out loud of an idea that could help reduce deaths which is the title of the article.
I could have said ban bikes altogether but no, tried to be constructive.
People blame bikes a lot because a lot of them are crazy. As someone else has said, they still go crazy on the a326 even after 2 recent deaths.
Won't be long until another one.
But, hey I'm just a stupid car driver.
Car Driver wrote:
Dr Alimantadod wrote: Not trying to start a fight but I think a law should be passed that doesn't allow passengers on bikes. Motorbikes are too dangerous as they are, let alone with someone sitting on the back. All fatalies are tragic but one death is better than two
Then drivers of cars then should be banned from carrying passengers. Can not be one rule for one and not the other
I think the passenger on a bike is slightly more exposed to danger than a passenger in a car.
Just trying to think out loud of an idea that could help reduce deaths which is the title of the article.
I could have said ban bikes altogether but no, tried to be constructive.
People blame bikes a lot because a lot of them are crazy. As someone else has said, they still go crazy on the a326 even after 2 recent deaths.
Won't be long until another one.
But, hey I'm just a stupid car driver.
Posted by: George on 12:43pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote]they are a drain on the NHS's resources[/quote]
How? Unless you can prove that in 100% of the cases, the biker is 100% at fault, you have no way of making this claim logical.
[quote]ban them....or make them pay a higher tax[/quote]
Ban them why? Your arguments are without substance. Tax them why? They pay their way
[quote](they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!)[/quote]
Ah, so its old-fashioned bitterness and envy at the root of your constant moaning, then.
[quote]every day i see bikers driving like t*ats[/quote]
Qualify that. It's not enough to simply say so. You never meet any of these challenges. Because you can't
[quote]....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly[/quote]
Utterly flawed. How is that contradictory?
[quote]bored[/quote]
Join the club. Take your constant, predictable, stock whines elsewhere. You've never yet retracted a single anti-bike comment when the biker has shown to be not at fault. That's boring. You're boring. Your posts are boring. Your attitude is boring. Even your name is boring, and I'm called 'George' ffs
they are a drain on the NHS's resources
How? Unless you can prove that in 100% of the cases, the biker is 100% at fault, you have no way of making this claim logical.
ban them....or make them pay a higher tax
Ban them why? Your arguments are without substance. Tax them why? They pay their way
(they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!)
Ah, so its old-fashioned bitterness and envy at the root of your constant moaning, then.
every day i see bikers driving like t*ats
Qualify that. It's not enough to simply say so. You never meet any of these challenges. Because you can't
....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly
Utterly flawed. How is that contradictory?
bored
Join the club. Take your constant, predictable, stock whines elsewhere. You've never yet retracted a single anti-bike comment when the biker has shown to be not at fault. That's boring. You're boring. Your posts are boring. Your attitude is boring. Even your name is boring, and I'm called 'George' ffs
Posted by: Lordshill Lass, Southampton on 12:48pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]a326 driver[/bold] wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !![/quote] Why 50MPH? A326 By pass is [bold]60mph[/bold] although many people do not know that. Obviously never read the highway code. If everyone drove according to the Highway Code, with regard to speeds and use of indicators, we might have safer roads.
a326 driver wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !!
Why 50MPH? A326 By pass is
60mph although many people do not know that. Obviously never read the highway code. If everyone drove according to the Highway Code, with regard to speeds and use of indicators, we might have safer roads.
Posted by: Airbag protected, In amongst 10 airbags. on 1:17pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Lordshill Lass[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]a326 driver[/bold] wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !![/quote] Why 50MPH? A326 By pass is [bold]60mph[/bold] although many people do not know that. Obviously never read the highway code. If everyone drove according to the Highway Code, with regard to speeds and use of indicators, we might have safer roads.[/quote] It doesn't matter what speed you're doing on the A-326, you'll always be overtaken by a m/bike. I'm in favour of letting them enjoy their machines at whatever speed they like but find it amusing that they plead for sympathy when it all goes pear shaped. Bikers are grown ups and aware of the risks... no-one else has their hand on that throttle...accept it in the knowledge that lots of other living bikers will try to find nice things to say about you on the Echo web site.
Lordshill Lass wrote:
a326 driver wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !!
Why 50MPH? A326 By pass is 60mph although many people do not know that. Obviously never read the highway code. If everyone drove according to the Highway Code, with regard to speeds and use of indicators, we might have safer roads.
It doesn't matter what speed you're doing on the A-326, you'll always be overtaken by a m/bike. I'm in favour of letting them enjoy their machines at whatever speed they like but find it amusing that they plead for sympathy when it all goes pear shaped. Bikers are grown ups and aware of the risks... no-one else has their hand on that throttle...accept it in the knowledge that lots of other living bikers will try to find nice things to say about you on the Echo web site.
Posted by: me on 1:46pm Sun 31 Aug 08
car drivers be aware of what is going on around you. check all your mirrors regularly. if you see a bike approaching you move over to let them pass (i do). is it that hard just to move a bit over to the left slightly so they have safe passage past you. lets face it they will get past us car drivers regardless, lets just make sure its done safely. most of them even put their hands out to thank you. working together, knowing what is happening around you will bring better driving conditions for all road users. there are too many selfish road users out there JUST THINK!!
car drivers be aware of what is going on around you. check all your mirrors regularly. if you see a bike approaching you move over to let them pass (i do). is it that hard just to move a bit over to the left slightly so they have safe passage past you. lets face it they will get past us car drivers regardless, lets just make sure its done safely. most of them even put their hands out to thank you. working together, knowing what is happening around you will bring better driving conditions for all road users. there are too many selfish road users out there JUST THINK!!
Posted by: Nit-picker, Louseville on 2:47pm Sun 31 Aug 08
Right on George!
Anything has got to be better than Gorf the backward frog,or Denzil the backward hillbilly!
Right on George!
Anything has got to be better than Gorf the backward frog,or Denzil the backward hillbilly!
Posted by: cathy, ex-hampshire on 3:25pm Sun 31 Aug 08
oh look the bike bashers are back out.for god sake grow up. ppl ride bikes. i go pillion on my husbands bike. we are not wreakless we dont go crazy, but i tell u this it wasnt another bike that pulled out in front of us this morning. nope it was a car. luckily my husband was awake and we stopped in time. the drivers excuse. sorry i didnt see you!!
it wasnt another bike that overtook us doing at least 60 in a 50 today. oh and i noticed his brake lights didnt work.
many bikers are good decent hardworking ppl. they just enjoy riding a bike. many bikers do alot of charity work.dont see many car drivers giving up their weekends to do charity rides to take a collection of gifts for children. easter they have the annual easter egg run. any of you car drivers do that??
so let us all just please be polite to each others on the roads.
and im sorry to the family of the little girl who died riding on her dads bike.
my condolances.
oh look the bike bashers are back out.for god sake grow up. ppl ride bikes. i go pillion on my husbands bike. we are not wreakless we dont go crazy, but i tell u this it wasnt another bike that pulled out in front of us this morning. nope it was a car. luckily my husband was awake and we stopped in time. the drivers excuse. sorry i didnt see you!!
it wasnt another bike that overtook us doing at least 60 in a 50 today. oh and i noticed his brake lights didnt work.
many bikers are good decent hardworking ppl. they just enjoy riding a bike. many bikers do alot of charity work.dont see many car drivers giving up their weekends to do charity rides to take a collection of gifts for children. easter they have the annual easter egg run. any of you car drivers do that??
so let us all just please be polite to each others on the roads.
and im sorry to the family of the little girl who died riding on her dads bike.
my condolances.
Posted by: me on 3:25pm Sun 31 Aug 08
A bit harsh but
if the rider would have used his brakes and not his throttle this girl would probably still be alive
A bit harsh but
if the rider would have used his brakes and not his throttle this girl would probably still be alive
Posted by: Blue, Southampton on 3:26pm Sun 31 Aug 08
Horrific incident, not only has a young male lost his life but the life of a child has been taken too as - the lives of many devastated. I don't know all of the facts but it sounds like on this particular occasion it was a car driver very much in the wrong - car drivers do need to be[bold]A LOT[/bold] far more aware and considerate.
However, I wouldn't allow an 11yr old child to sit in the front seat of a car let alone pillion on a bike so I agree that the minimum age for pillion passengers should be raised for their own safety regardless of who is at fault.
Although the vast majority of bike riders ride safely (and are usually grateful if car drivers show a little bit of consideration) they are always going to be more vulnerable but there are a few nutters (driving bikes and cars, no exception) out there who don't give a toss. I saw a motorcyclist with lights on and in broad daylight driving at ridiculous speeds along the A326 in Holbury yesterday, a very busy and built up stretch of road that has seen more than it's fair share of accidents over recent years. Unfortunately some people will never learn no matter how much we plead or try and educate...
Horrific incident, not only has a young male lost his life but the life of a child has been taken too as - the lives of many devastated. I don't know all of the facts but it sounds like on this particular occasion it was a car driver very much in the wrong - car drivers do need to be
A LOT far more aware and considerate.
However, I wouldn't allow an 11yr old child to sit in the front seat of a car let alone pillion on a bike so I agree that the minimum age for pillion passengers should be raised for their own safety regardless of who is at fault.
Although the vast majority of bike riders ride safely (and are usually grateful if car drivers show a little bit of consideration) they are always going to be more vulnerable but there are a few nutters (driving bikes and cars, no exception) out there who don't give a toss. I saw a motorcyclist with lights on and in broad daylight driving at ridiculous speeds along the A326 in Holbury yesterday, a very busy and built up stretch of road that has seen more than it's fair share of accidents over recent years. Unfortunately some people will never learn no matter how much we plead or try and educate...
Posted by: Realist, The Real World on 3:56pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote]many bikers do alot of charity work[/quote]
That must be why they're always driving at lunatic speeds and taking risks so that they attend the latest fund raiser.
many bikers do alot of charity work
That must be why they're always driving at lunatic speeds and taking risks so that they attend the latest fund raiser.
Posted by: JillyBee, Portswood on 4:08pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Kat Bike Rider[/bold] wrote:
I would like to ask, why does everyone seem to blame motorcyclists?? I was hit whilst waiting in traffic, because the driver didnt see me - The traffic had stopped, my break lights were on, as were the car in front! I wasnt weaving, over taking or speeding, yet everyone automatically assumed that the accident was caused by me. Luckly I wasnt forced into the 40mph traffic on the otherside of the road, which would have killed me. Their excuse a parent had just died! First thing that comes in to my mind - Why are you driving! PLEASE, can all CAR drivers look out for bikes!Think about what your doing, we should all have refresher courses, not just bikers. Too many people driver on auto pilot!!![/quote] My brother had a similar accident a few years ago - he was stationary at a roundabout, waiting for the traffic, and the car that hit him actually drove over his right foot.
The driver's main reaction (as Mark lay in the road, with his leg broken in 3 places) was to demand that he get out of the way and move his bike, as the driver was late for an appointment!
You can't just blame the bikers - with drivers like that around, nobody else is really safe.
Kat Bike Rider wrote:
I would like to ask, why does everyone seem to blame motorcyclists?? I was hit whilst waiting in traffic, because the driver didnt see me - The traffic had stopped, my break lights were on, as were the car in front! I wasnt weaving, over taking or speeding, yet everyone automatically assumed that the accident was caused by me. Luckly I wasnt forced into the 40mph traffic on the otherside of the road, which would have killed me. Their excuse a parent had just died! First thing that comes in to my mind - Why are you driving! PLEASE, can all CAR drivers look out for bikes!Think about what your doing, we should all have refresher courses, not just bikers. Too many people driver on auto pilot!!!
My brother had a similar accident a few years ago - he was stationary at a roundabout, waiting for the traffic, and the car that hit him actually drove over his right foot.
The driver's main reaction (as Mark lay in the road, with his leg broken in 3 places) was to demand that he get out of the way and move his bike, as the driver was late for an appointment!
You can't just blame the bikers - with drivers like that around, nobody else is really safe.
Posted by: Angela Whitworth, Locks Heath on 4:26pm Sun 31 Aug 08
(they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!)
We don't actually - we do have to pay (Moron).
Couple of points;
1 I nearly got hit of my SV650 yesterday. Its bright yellow and the headlight was on. OPEN YOUR EYES and you might just see us. I am 47, I was doing 30 and I'm not really sure what else I need to do so I don't get hit.
2 I took my children to school on the back of an FZR400. (Seperately of cours).
3 Forgetting the moron bike haters - we have to try and educate the youngsters and car drivers to realise we are not immortal.
I don't know how we are going to do that because people have been trying for years, but good luck and my thoughts are with the families.
Regards
Anji
(they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!)
We don't actually - we do have to pay (Moron).
Couple of points;
1 I nearly got hit of my SV650 yesterday. Its bright yellow and the headlight was on. OPEN YOUR EYES and you might just see us. I am 47, I was doing 30 and I'm not really sure what else I need to do so I don't get hit.
2 I took my children to school on the back of an FZR400. (Seperately of cours).
3 Forgetting the moron bike haters - we have to try and educate the youngsters and car drivers to realise we are not immortal.
I don't know how we are going to do that because people have been trying for years, but good luck and my thoughts are with the families.
Regards
Anji
Posted by: Creature Void of Form on 5:03pm Sun 31 Aug 08
Well, aren't bike riders a perfect bunch of people? I have never heard a group of people so unwilling to admit they do anything wrong despite us seeing it EVERYDAY on the roads.
With your attitudes it's no wonder the relationship between drivers and riders is so frosty.
I have seen a lot of car drivers admit they can make mistakes and can miss a bike in a mirror etc but have NOT heard a biker ever admit they are anything but perfect.
Tossers
Well, aren't bike riders a perfect bunch of people? I have never heard a group of people so unwilling to admit they do anything wrong despite us seeing it EVERYDAY on the roads.
With your attitudes it's no wonder the relationship between drivers and riders is so frosty.
I have seen a lot of car drivers admit they can make mistakes and can miss a bike in a mirror etc but have NOT heard a biker ever admit they are anything but perfect.
Tossers
Posted by: snoopy, southampton on 5:47pm Sun 31 Aug 08
Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve
r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.
Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve
r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.
Posted by: realist my @rse on 5:50pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Realist[/bold] wrote:
[quote]many bikers do alot of charity work[/quote]
That must be why they're always driving at lunatic speeds and taking risks so that they attend the latest fund raiser.[/quote] It's not just that you only notice bikers who overtake you at lunatic speeds, then? I take it you've carried out extensive research to prove all this? Let's see it then!
Realist wrote:
many bikers do alot of charity work
That must be why they're always driving at lunatic speeds and taking risks so that they attend the latest fund raiser.
It's not just that you only notice bikers who overtake you at lunatic speeds, then? I take it you've carried out extensive research to prove all this? Let's see it then!
Posted by: Robert on 5:57pm Sun 31 Aug 08
Bikers need to remember that, in situations where they may be legally in the right, this does not make them immune from injury or death. In the two near-misses I've had with my car, I've been creeping round a large obstacle at a snail's pace when a bike has seen a small gap for himself and come bombing through.
Remember there are some circumstances where your path may be momentarily obstructed.
Bikers need to remember that, in situations where they may be legally in the right, this does not make them immune from injury or death. In the two near-misses I've had with my car, I've been creeping round a large obstacle at a snail's pace when a bike has seen a small gap for himself and come bombing through.
Remember there are some circumstances where your path may be momentarily obstructed.
Posted by: Ben Matthews, Soton on 6:24pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]snoopy[/bold] wrote:
Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve
r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.[/quote] Sorry Snoopy but if you are saying that it is legal to 'overtake' on the nearside, you are WRONG.
This from the Highway Code concerning 'Overtaking' (it refers to both cars and motorbikes)
"Overtaking 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
It clearly says not to overtake on the left and then goes on to warn about not weaving in and out of lanes to overtake.
I see bikes doing this most of the time.
snoopy wrote:
Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve
r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.
Sorry Snoopy but if you are saying that it is legal to 'overtake' on the nearside, you are WRONG.
This from the Highway Code concerning 'Overtaking' (it refers to both cars and motorbikes)
"Overtaking 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
It clearly says not to overtake on the left and then goes on to warn about not weaving in and out of lanes to overtake.
I see bikes doing this most of the time.
Posted by: George on 6:45pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Ben Matthews[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]snoopy[/bold] wrote:
Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve
r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.[/quote] Sorry Snoopy but if you are saying that it is legal to 'overtake' on the nearside, you are WRONG.
This from the Highway Code concerning 'Overtaking' (it refers to both cars and motorbikes)
"Overtaking 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
It clearly says not to overtake on the left and then goes on to warn about not weaving in and out of lanes to overtake.
I see bikes doing this most of the time.
[/quote] The Highway Code isn't the law. I suspect you're right and it isn't legal, and regardless I think it's a bad move. But quoting the Highway Code is meaningless, we're not required by law to follow it. The Code even says so
Ben Matthews wrote:
snoopy wrote:
Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve
r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.
Sorry Snoopy but if you are saying that it is legal to 'overtake' on the nearside, you are WRONG.
This from the Highway Code concerning 'Overtaking' (it refers to both cars and motorbikes)
"Overtaking 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
It clearly says not to overtake on the left and then goes on to warn about not weaving in and out of lanes to overtake.
I see bikes doing this most of the time.
The Highway Code isn't the law. I suspect you're right and it isn't legal, and regardless I think it's a bad move. But quoting the Highway Code is meaningless, we're not required by law to follow it. The Code even says so
Posted by: james, southampton on 6:46pm Sun 31 Aug 08
Bike Safe is working then ???
Bike Safe is working then ???
Posted by: Sheitma Pance, Soton on 7:12pm Sun 31 Aug 08
QUOTE: "They assume that "weaving" through traffic is dangerous. Most bikers don't actually do it"
IMHO that is untrue.
In slow moving traffic I am always seeing motorcycles illegally weaving in and out of lanes.
If motorcycles actually adhered to the highway code there would be fewer deaths.
QUOTE: "They assume that "weaving" through traffic is dangerous. Most bikers don't actually do it"
IMHO that is untrue.
In slow moving traffic I am always seeing motorcycles illegally weaving in and out of lanes.
If motorcycles actually adhered to the highway code there would be fewer deaths.
Posted by: ??? on 7:33pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Sheitma Pance[/bold] wrote:
QUOTE: "They assume that "weaving" through traffic is dangerous. Most bikers don't actually do it"
IMHO that is untrue.
In slow moving traffic I am always seeing motorcycles illegally weaving in and out of lanes.
If motorcycles actually adhered to the highway code there would be fewer deaths.[/quote] What do you mean by "lanes"? There's nothing illegal about changing lanes, y'know
Sheitma Pance wrote:
QUOTE: "They assume that "weaving" through traffic is dangerous. Most bikers don't actually do it"
IMHO that is untrue.
In slow moving traffic I am always seeing motorcycles illegally weaving in and out of lanes.
If motorcycles actually adhered to the highway code there would be fewer deaths.
What do you mean by "lanes"? There's nothing illegal about changing lanes, y'know
Posted by: Kari, Southampton on 7:38pm Sun 31 Aug 08
[quote][bold]gorf[/bold] wrote:
they are a drain on the NHS's resources ban them....or make them pay a higher tax (they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!) every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly bored[/quote] Why should Motorcycles have to pay a different tax, they're more economical than most cars that are on the road and help to prevent traffic build up.
The toll on the bridge is still in place, the council need to have one of their usual "meetings" before deciding on whether to ban the toll, which as we all know was paid off years ago.
Coming from a family that have numerous motorbikes and having family friends that have died in motorbike accidents aswell as having a friend who was best friends with the recent Nicholas...the situation has always been the other driver who couldn't be BOTHERED to look properly.
Think before you post.
gorf wrote:
they are a drain on the NHS's resources ban them....or make them pay a higher tax (they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!) every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly bored
Why should Motorcycles have to pay a different tax, they're more economical than most cars that are on the road and help to prevent traffic build up.
The toll on the bridge is still in place, the council need to have one of their usual "meetings" before deciding on whether to ban the toll, which as we all know was paid off years ago.
Coming from a family that have numerous motorbikes and having family friends that have died in motorbike accidents aswell as having a friend who was best friends with the recent Nicholas...the situation has always been the other driver who couldn't be BOTHERED to look properly.
Think before you post.
Posted by: snoopy, southampton on 9:47pm Sun 31 Aug 08
I repeat it is not illegal to pass through the traffic..........a police car stuck in stationery traffic moved over to let me through!! To those courteous drivers who did the same and there were a few who were looking in the mirrors thanks to you also. However I was not breaking any laws as I was passing in between the two lanes NOT ON THE INSIDE OR NEARSIDE. Anyone completing these are just idiots and asking for trouble. Go back and read the motorcycle section of the highway code and also the Police Roadcraft advanced riding manual - All quoted and actively encouraged!
Just like the boy racers and egotistic men in their supposedly "fast" cars - not when your stuck in a traffic jam - there are bikers out there who flout the law and who in the end will probably pay the ultimate price but know that when they take the risk - whereas car drivers think they are invincible because they are protected by a metal box.
Lets all have some respect and look out for each other out there instead of shouting whos right or wrong after the event.
Drive with respect for all other road users.
I repeat it is not illegal to pass through the traffic..........a police car stuck in stationery traffic moved over to let me through!! To those courteous drivers who did the same and there were a few who were looking in the mirrors thanks to you also. However I was not breaking any laws as I was passing in between the two lanes NOT ON THE INSIDE OR NEARSIDE. Anyone completing these are just idiots and asking for trouble. Go back and read the motorcycle section of the highway code and also the Police Roadcraft advanced riding manual - All quoted and actively encouraged!
Just like the boy racers and egotistic men in their supposedly "fast" cars - not when your stuck in a traffic jam - there are bikers out there who flout the law and who in the end will probably pay the ultimate price but know that when they take the risk - whereas car drivers think they are invincible because they are protected by a metal box.
Lets all have some respect and look out for each other out there instead of shouting whos right or wrong after the event.
Drive with respect for all other road users.
Posted by: nannyogg., Hampshire on 11:04pm Sun 31 Aug 08
My bike has fitted daytime running lights which are more of a hazard due to the pot holes in our roads(lights bumping up and down some car drivers think that i'm flashing them out).I observe the correct speed for the weather conditions and speed limit on our roads,if i'm stuck in traffic then like most other bikers and even police motorcyclist then i will "white line it" as i do not want to be sat behind a tin box throwing out fumes butt ends and blaring music(i have my own car for that).Most other road users do look out for bikes using their wing and rear view mirrors.Unfortunly over the years bike owners have been made to have quieter exhust systems fitted and now we seem to be paying the price for this with the same old "sorry mate did'nt see you" senario. We all need to be aware of other road users no matter what they are riding/driving.
My bike has fitted daytime running lights which are more of a hazard due to the pot holes in our roads(lights bumping up and down some car drivers think that i'm flashing them out).I observe the correct speed for the weather conditions and speed limit on our roads,if i'm stuck in traffic then like most other bikers and even police motorcyclist then i will "white line it" as i do not want to be sat behind a tin box throwing out fumes butt ends and blaring music(i have my own car for that).Most other road users do look out for bikes using their wing and rear view mirrors.Unfortunly over the years bike owners have been made to have quieter exhust systems fitted and now we seem to be paying the price for this with the same old "sorry mate did'nt see you" senario. We all need to be aware of other road users no matter what they are riding/driving.
Posted by: Gilmore, Shirley. Southampton on 1:41am Mon 1 Sep 08
Some of these comments make it seem like car drivers are part of some superior, ignorant, jealous club that hates bikers. I'd suggest that this probably isn't quite true.
I neither drive nor ride motorbikes, but over the few years I did drive a car, yes, there were times when motorbikes appeared to come out of nowhere when I was turning at a junction and leave me no choice but to brake hard, and hope the person behind me was on the ball. I can hold my hands up and say I should have spotted them, but I can also take that hit because I'm in a car. A biker might not be so lucky.
You see, the point I'm trying to get at is bikers are far more vulnerable on the road. That's a given, but you'd think that because of this, bikers would actually be a lot more cautious and drive a lot more defensively, without assuming that a car has seen them. Instead bikers seem to take great offence at having not been seen as if it was a violation of their human rights.
Yes bikes should be seen, and car drivers should take care to look for bikes, but bikers should take extra care to ensure that they are not putting themselves in any more danger than they already are. Never assume a car driver has seen you, especially when it's usually your backside that's on the line, not the car driver's. Kind words and sympathy on the Daily Echo website are no substitute for staying alive.
Some of these comments make it seem like car drivers are part of some superior, ignorant, jealous club that hates bikers. I'd suggest that this probably isn't quite true.
I neither drive nor ride motorbikes, but over the few years I did drive a car, yes, there were times when motorbikes appeared to come out of nowhere when I was turning at a junction and leave me no choice but to brake hard, and hope the person behind me was on the ball. I can hold my hands up and say I should have spotted them, but I can also take that hit because I'm in a car. A biker might not be so lucky.
You see, the point I'm trying to get at is bikers are far more vulnerable on the road. That's a given, but you'd think that because of this, bikers would actually be a lot more cautious and drive a lot more defensively, without assuming that a car has seen them. Instead bikers seem to take great offence at having not been seen as if it was a violation of their human rights.
Yes bikes should be seen, and car drivers should take care to look for bikes, but bikers should take extra care to ensure that they are not putting themselves in any more danger than they already are. Never assume a car driver has seen you, especially when it's usually your backside that's on the line, not the car driver's. Kind words and sympathy on the Daily Echo website are no substitute for staying alive.
Posted by: clumsy colin, on my as5 on 2:43am Mon 1 Sep 08
COnsidering bikes are so dangerous, and statistics show they are involved in such a high percentage of accidents I would love to see
HOW MANY INVOLVE TWO MOTORCYCLES AND NO CARS?
surely this number will be most of them? Unless of course we should factor in the lack of attention given to vulnerable people on the road by oblivious lipstick painting, mobile phone using, non indicating car drivers as well?
COnsidering bikes are so dangerous, and statistics show they are involved in such a high percentage of accidents I would love to see
HOW MANY INVOLVE TWO MOTORCYCLES AND NO CARS?
surely this number will be most of them? Unless of course we should factor in the lack of attention given to vulnerable people on the road by oblivious lipstick painting, mobile phone using, non indicating car drivers as well?
Posted by: Big Boy, Hythe on 5:40am Mon 1 Sep 08
I take responsibility for my own actions. I am a 'big boy' now. I will ride my bike however I see fit. If conditions allow & I want to weave in & out of traffic I will. I have had accidents, but 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. I learn my life lessons, but my heart goes out to the little kid. Maybe a good time to revisit the motorcycle passenger laws.
I take responsibility for my own actions. I am a 'big boy' now. I will ride my bike however I see fit. If conditions allow & I want to weave in & out of traffic I will. I have had accidents, but 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. I learn my life lessons, but my heart goes out to the little kid. Maybe a good time to revisit the motorcycle passenger laws.
Posted by: Gilmore, Shirley. Southampton on 8:34am Mon 1 Sep 08
[quote][bold]Big Boy[/bold] wrote:
I take responsibility for my own actions. I am a 'big boy' now. I will ride my bike however I see fit. If conditions allow & I want to weave in & out of traffic I will. I have had accidents, but 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. I learn my life lessons, but my heart goes out to the little kid. Maybe a good time to revisit the motorcycle passenger laws.[/quote] That's all well and good Big Boy, but the "I will ride my bike however I see fit" attitude endangers not only yourself, but other road users. What didn't kill you might have made you stronger, but have you thought about maybe what it's done to the other poor people involved in your accidents?
Big Boy wrote:
I take responsibility for my own actions. I am a 'big boy' now. I will ride my bike however I see fit. If conditions allow & I want to weave in & out of traffic I will. I have had accidents, but 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. I learn my life lessons, but my heart goes out to the little kid. Maybe a good time to revisit the motorcycle passenger laws.
That's all well and good Big Boy, but the "I will ride my bike however I see fit" attitude endangers not only yourself, but other road users. What didn't kill you might have made you stronger, but have you thought about maybe what it's done to the other poor people involved in your accidents?
Posted by: Ben Matthews, Soton on 11:33am Mon 1 Sep 08
[quote][bold]George[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Ben Matthews[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]snoopy[/bold] wrote: Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.[/quote] Sorry Snoopy but if you are saying that it is legal to 'overtake' on the nearside, you are WRONG. This from the Highway Code concerning 'Overtaking' (it refers to both cars and motorbikes) "Overtaking 268 Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake." It clearly says not to overtake on the left and then goes on to warn about not weaving in and out of lanes to overtake. I see bikes doing this most of the time. [/quote] The Highway Code isn't the law. I suspect you're right and it isn't legal, and regardless I think it's a bad move. But quoting the Highway Code is meaningless, we're not required by law to follow it. The Code even says so[/quote] Hi George,
Yes of course that is true. THe Highway Code is exactly that a 'code' but it does form the basis of our motoring laws.
By not following the code a driver/cyclist could be charged with 'Driving without due care and attention'
I come back to what another said. 'As you dive home tonight count the number of bikers breaking either the Highway Code or the law (Speeding in particular) compaierd with the number of car divers breaking the code/law.
I've done tried the little game and found that many more bikers were breaking the cod/law than car drivers.
And thats my point. But we ALL have to drive with care and consideration
George wrote:
Ben Matthews wrote: snoopy wrote: Its difficult to comment on an accident on which I do not know the facts...however I am a biker - a cyclist and car driver. Yesterday I went to Bournemouth to watch the air show knowing the traffic would be awful used my motorcycle. This involved me passing stationery traffic virtually all the way down the M27 and then the A35....car drivers you must simply accept the fact that you are stuck in traffic as bikers accept the fact that there is a risk with this manouvering but it is LEGAL I repeat LEGAL - when I use my car I accept the road conditions and traffic conditions. I add that within the space of 6 miles - I counted 3 seperate accidents all involving cars!!! all creating even worse traffic snarl ups! There are more lunatic car drivers out there than there are bikers - overall I see a lack of respect from one driver to another......whateve r your driving/riding. All car drivers and bike riders should be tested to IAM standards before being given a licence.
Sorry Snoopy but if you are saying that it is legal to 'overtake' on the nearside, you are WRONG. This from the Highway Code concerning 'Overtaking' (it refers to both cars and motorbikes) "Overtaking 268 Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake." It clearly says not to overtake on the left and then goes on to warn about not weaving in and out of lanes to overtake. I see bikes doing this most of the time.
The Highway Code isn't the law. I suspect you're right and it isn't legal, and regardless I think it's a bad move. But quoting the Highway Code is meaningless, we're not required by law to follow it. The Code even says so
Hi George,
Yes of course that is true. THe Highway Code is exactly that a 'code' but it does form the basis of our motoring laws.
By not following the code a driver/cyclist could be charged with 'Driving without due care and attention'
I come back to what another said. 'As you dive home tonight count the number of bikers breaking either the Highway Code or the law (Speeding in particular) compaierd with the number of car divers breaking the code/law.
I've done tried the little game and found that many more bikers were breaking the cod/law than car drivers.
And thats my point. But we ALL have to drive with care and consideration
Posted by: Big Boy, Hythe on 11:38am Mon 1 Sep 08
No one else involved in my accidents. I did scrape alongside of a lorry once, but he didn't feel the need to stop. Fair enough.
No one else involved in my accidents. I did scrape alongside of a lorry once, but he didn't feel the need to stop. Fair enough.
Posted by: Andy on 1:30pm Mon 1 Sep 08
As a driver and biker, I have to say to all those who claim filtering is illegal: Go check your facts before you spout nonsense. As a starting point I suggest you lookup Davis vs Shrogin 2006, where a filtering biker was ruled to have been completely innocent when he was wiped out by a driver who just didn't look.
Legal, chaps.
As a driver and biker, I have to say to all those who claim filtering is illegal: Go check your facts before you spout nonsense. As a starting point I suggest you lookup Davis vs Shrogin 2006, where a filtering biker was ruled to have been completely innocent when he was wiped out by a driver who just didn't look.
Legal, chaps.
Posted by: Ben Matthews, Soton on 4:03pm Mon 1 Sep 08
[quote][bold]Andy[/bold] wrote:
As a driver and biker, I have to say to all those who claim filtering is illegal: Go check your facts before you spout nonsense. As a starting point I suggest you lookup Davis vs Shrogin 2006, where a filtering biker was ruled to have been completely innocent when he was wiped out by a driver who just didn't look.
Legal, chaps.[/quote] Dear Andy,
Yep, I looked up 'Davis vs Shrogin' and it does indicate according to case law that the motorcylicst was not to blame in that case.
BUT, the case involved stationary or very slow moving traffic.
Motorbikes Today reported...
'In other words, if you are filtering past traffic which is stopped or almost stopped and someone pulls out in front of you close enough that you can't avoid a collision when travelling at a reasonable speed then the resposibiltiy for the collision rests squarely with the other driver.'
This would not apply to bikes weaving in and out of traffic on a motorway or dual carriageway which are travelling above 'slow'.
I would put 'slow' on a motorway anything below 20mph.
Back to you, Andy.
Andy wrote:
As a driver and biker, I have to say to all those who claim filtering is illegal: Go check your facts before you spout nonsense. As a starting point I suggest you lookup Davis vs Shrogin 2006, where a filtering biker was ruled to have been completely innocent when he was wiped out by a driver who just didn't look.
Legal, chaps.
Dear Andy,
Yep, I looked up 'Davis vs Shrogin' and it does indicate according to case law that the motorcylicst was not to blame in that case.
BUT, the case involved stationary or very slow moving traffic.
Motorbikes Today reported...
'In other words, if you are filtering past traffic which is stopped or almost stopped and someone pulls out in front of you close enough that you can't avoid a collision when travelling at a reasonable speed then the resposibiltiy for the collision rests squarely with the other driver.'
This would not apply to bikes weaving in and out of traffic on a motorway or dual carriageway which are travelling above 'slow'.
I would put 'slow' on a motorway anything below 20mph.
Back to you, Andy.
Posted by: Seb, Sotton on 5:14pm Mon 1 Sep 08
Well done for pointing out the big error in the 'Filtering is Illegal' debate. It's not if done in stationary or slow moving traffic. Obviously someone filtering doing 120mph on the motorway is asking for trouble. The thing that annoys me is that people seem to blast bikers and appear to think all cra drivers drive like saints. Which is of course utter nonsense. Yes I've seen a few bikers ride like idiots, and being a biker myself, it annoys me as I know exactly what everyone in a car nearby is thinking. But the countless times I've been on my bike and had someone almost hit me is unreal, I've even had someone actually stare at me and still pull out of the juntion to my right almost into my side.
All it takes is an extra look to make sure it's all clear, who knows, it might even save a life or two.
Well done for pointing out the big error in the 'Filtering is Illegal' debate. It's not if done in stationary or slow moving traffic. Obviously someone filtering doing 120mph on the motorway is asking for trouble. The thing that annoys me is that people seem to blast bikers and appear to think all cra drivers drive like saints. Which is of course utter nonsense. Yes I've seen a few bikers ride like idiots, and being a biker myself, it annoys me as I know exactly what everyone in a car nearby is thinking. But the countless times I've been on my bike and had someone almost hit me is unreal, I've even had someone actually stare at me and still pull out of the juntion to my right almost into my side.
All it takes is an extra look to make sure it's all clear, who knows, it might even save a life or two.
Posted by: Realist, The Real World on 10:06pm Mon 1 Sep 08
[quote][bold]JB Soton[/bold] wrote:
It can all be summed up in two words..Think Bike!
[/quote] Think bike....Think Knobhead.
JB Soton wrote:
It can all be summed up in two words..Think Bike!
Think bike....Think Knobhead.
Posted by: dan, locks heath on 11:02am Tue 2 Sep 08
THINK BIKE! its not hard!
THINK BIKE! its not hard!
Posted by: Concerned, Southampton on 3:24pm Tue 2 Sep 08
[quote][bold]mary hinge[/bold] wrote:
Thought that out did'nt you, not? So one gets killed rather than two? bikes are dangerous because people don't always spot them, they appear between traffic and also in some incidents they spped. most bikers except that they have to be much more aware than a car driver, I want know sympathy if i am knocked off my bike unless its the result of some car driver making a ill judged move in front of me. biking is a high risk transport but beating the endless traffic jams and shear pleasure makes it worth it. I do believe all bikes should have headlights on but if idiots are going to do U turns in front of you even this won't help![/quote] Well said. Theres know point stopping bikes taking passengers. Car drivers need educating so they don't drive around thinking there the only ones on the road. This would save help save lives.
mary hinge wrote:
Thought that out did'nt you, not? So one gets killed rather than two? bikes are dangerous because people don't always spot them, they appear between traffic and also in some incidents they spped. most bikers except that they have to be much more aware than a car driver, I want know sympathy if i am knocked off my bike unless its the result of some car driver making a ill judged move in front of me. biking is a high risk transport but beating the endless traffic jams and shear pleasure makes it worth it. I do believe all bikes should have headlights on but if idiots are going to do U turns in front of you even this won't help!
Well said. Theres know point stopping bikes taking passengers. Car drivers need educating so they don't drive around thinking there the only ones on the road. This would save help save lives.
Posted by: Fed up of narrow minded car drivers, Hythe on 3:33pm Tue 2 Sep 08
[quote][bold]a326 driver[/bold] wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !![/quote] Your a moron, Try going out on a bike once in awhile and see how many stupid inconiderate car drivers there are out ther. Bikers may go a bit fast sometimes thats no excuse for drivers kill them, they should be more aware. My boyfriend rides a bike he's not always as sensible as he should be but the only accidents he has had have been the fault of careless car drivers.
a326 driver wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !!
Your a moron, Try going out on a bike once in awhile and see how many stupid inconiderate car drivers there are out ther. Bikers may go a bit fast sometimes thats no excuse for drivers kill them, they should be more aware. My boyfriend rides a bike he's not always as sensible as he should be but the only accidents he has had have been the fault of careless car drivers.
Posted by: Tess, Soton on 3:38pm Tue 2 Sep 08
[quote][bold]gorf[/bold] wrote:
they are a drain on the NHS's resources ban them....or make them pay a higher tax (they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!) every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly bored[/quote] Suprise suprise you again. You really are the lowest of the low. I believe I read on another post you made "someone kill me". Well you let us know where you are and im sure there be more the one person happy to oblige.
gorf wrote:
they are a drain on the NHS's resources ban them....or make them pay a higher tax (they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!) every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly bored
Suprise suprise you again. You really are the lowest of the low. I believe I read on another post you made "someone kill me". Well you let us know where you are and im sure there be more the one person happy to oblige.
Posted by: Me, Hythe on 3:45pm Tue 2 Sep 08
[quote][bold]me[/bold] wrote:
A bit harsh but if the rider would have used his brakes and not his throttle this girl would probably still be alive [/quote] You should get you fcts stright before you making inane comments like that, if the woman had just used the roundabout instaed of being lazy they would both still be here. Your a T**T
me wrote:
A bit harsh but if the rider would have used his brakes and not his throttle this girl would probably still be alive
You should get you fcts stright before you making inane comments like that, if the woman had just used the roundabout instaed of being lazy they would both still be here. Your a T**T
Posted by: Tired, Hythe on 3:59pm Tue 2 Sep 08
[quote][bold]Creature Void of Form[/bold] wrote:
Well, aren't bike riders a perfect bunch of people? I have never heard a group of people so unwilling to admit they do anything wrong despite us seeing it EVERYDAY on the roads. With your attitudes it's no wonder the relationship between drivers and riders is so frosty. I have seen a lot of car drivers admit they can make mistakes and can miss a bike in a mirror etc but have NOT heard a biker ever admit they are anything but perfect. Tossers [/quote] Your the f***ing tosser, no ones saying bikers are perfect there just pointing out the fact that car drivers aren't eaither. You seem to think you have some god given right to be on the road and f**k everyone else. No bikers are perfect but the don't deserve to killed especially by self involved drivers who think there to good to look out for other raod users
Morons like you should be shot
Creature Void of Form wrote:
Well, aren't bike riders a perfect bunch of people? I have never heard a group of people so unwilling to admit they do anything wrong despite us seeing it EVERYDAY on the roads. With your attitudes it's no wonder the relationship between drivers and riders is so frosty. I have seen a lot of car drivers admit they can make mistakes and can miss a bike in a mirror etc but have NOT heard a biker ever admit they are anything but perfect. Tossers
Your the f***ing tosser, no ones saying bikers are perfect there just pointing out the fact that car drivers aren't eaither. You seem to think you have some god given right to be on the road and f**k everyone else. No bikers are perfect but the don't deserve to killed especially by self involved drivers who think there to good to look out for other raod users
Morons like you should be shot
Posted by: ? on 4:15pm Tue 2 Sep 08
[quote][bold]gorf[/bold] wrote:
they are a drain on the NHS's resources ban them....or make them pay a higher tax (they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!) every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly bored[/quote] you idiot how do you think the families will feel reading this u pathetic man
gorf wrote:
they are a drain on the NHS's resources ban them....or make them pay a higher tax (they already get the itchen bridge for free!!!) every day i see bikers driving like t*ats....and they think they can in dangerous conditions but when they die all the friends and family come out saying how they wouldnt hurt a fly bored
you idiot how do you think the families will feel reading this u pathetic man
Posted by: suzy, holbury on 1:28pm Wed 3 Sep 08
in regards to what gorf wrote,or should i say DORK.What a ****.pathetic comment.how on earth can you blame motorbikes when it clearly wasnt even there fault on this occassion.how do you think there families feel.what a waste of space.people like this disgust me.BORED.
in regards to what gorf wrote,or should i say DORK.What a ****.pathetic comment.how on earth can you blame motorbikes when it clearly wasnt even there fault on this occassion.how do you think there families feel.what a waste of space.people like this disgust me.BORED.
Posted by: ? on 9:22am Wed 10 Sep 08
[quote][bold]a326 driver[/bold] wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !![/quote] You maybe rite but there are still idiots doin u turns on this road
a326 driver wrote:
Idiots are still flying down the centre of the A326 even with recent events in mind, with little regard for any other road users !! Sorry but it is more often than not the bikers that are at fault!!! Restrict them to 50 MPH !!
You maybe rite but there are still idiots doin u turns on this road
Posted by: Derek de Reuck, Poole on 10:36am Sat 11 Oct 08
Read through all this bickering, posturing and rightous indignation... Talking directly to you "car only" drivers now... i want to thankyou sincerely for every single one of you who moves over to let me by,(and thats about 95% of cars i ride past)and more amazingly to every commercial lorry and Artic driver who moves thier 50 tonne laviathon across to allow little old me a survival space, thankyou for my life....ive been lucky enough to be a biker for 28 years, been wiped out a few times and got away with it by the grace of god. Obviously I also drive my car, and try my best to do everything i can to help a biker be safer, but i can still get it wrong, and now and again i do, (look up and a bikes pulled out, look in the mirror and theres a bike i didnt see soon enough or in some other way find myself acting like the kind of minority car driver i hate).....and for this im ashamed, We learn every day, without 101% total consentration and even a little intuition too, its all too easy to miss something and cause a disaster...the de-sensitising effect of being caged in a car interior makes it even more important to focus 1001% of the time.
Speaking as a biker now..For every time i ride past you in your cars and startle you,(for i know this is what causes your anger) i appologise, its not deliberate, for every time i may cut into a gap and carve you up..im sorry, its not intended to wind you up, we all just want to get there dont we.?
So if it helps you to "think Knobhead" (as Realist above said) then im fine with that, if it helps you to see me as a "knobhead reckless tw*t", in order to make allowances for me....then thats fine, Im greatful for your courtesy in what ever low esteem you may hold me...because ill be alive at the end of it and sticks and stones aye..?......
This isnt some subservient grovel, or rightous rant, but having read down all the comments right from the top...maybe after it all is said....this attitude would have prevented the devastating tragedy of Channon and her step Dads death.... Ride Safe, and Drive Safe everyone...and we can all wake up to argue about it again tomorrow....if we're lucky.
Read through all this bickering, posturing and rightous indignation... Talking directly to you "car only" drivers now... i want to thankyou sincerely for every single one of you who moves over to let me by,(and thats about 95% of cars i ride past)and more amazingly to every commercial lorry and Artic driver who moves thier 50 tonne laviathon across to allow little old me a survival space, thankyou for my life....ive been lucky enough to be a biker for 28 years, been wiped out a few times and got away with it by the grace of god. Obviously I also drive my car, and try my best to do everything i can to help a biker be safer, but i can still get it wrong, and now and again i do, (look up and a bikes pulled out, look in the mirror and theres a bike i didnt see soon enough or in some other way find myself acting like the kind of minority car driver i hate).....and for this im ashamed, We learn every day, without 101% total consentration and even a little intuition too, its all too easy to miss something and cause a disaster...the de-sensitising effect of being caged in a car interior makes it even more important to focus 1001% of the time.
Speaking as a biker now..For every time i ride past you in your cars and startle you,(for i know this is what causes your anger) i appologise, its not deliberate, for every time i may cut into a gap and carve you up..im sorry, its not intended to wind you up, we all just want to get there dont we.?
So if it helps you to "think Knobhead" (as Realist above said) then im fine with that, if it helps you to see me as a "knobhead reckless tw*t", in order to make allowances for me....then thats fine, Im greatful for your courtesy in what ever low esteem you may hold me...because ill be alive at the end of it and sticks and stones aye..?......
This isnt some subservient grovel, or rightous rant, but having read down all the comments right from the top...maybe after it all is said....this attitude would have prevented the devastating tragedy of Channon and her step Dads death.... Ride Safe, and Drive Safe everyone...and we can all wake up to argue about it again tomorrow....if we're lucky.
